"I don't want to think!"

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I have a player who comes mostly for the social interaction. When it comes to fighting, she wants to two things: roll a d20 to hit and roll a die for damage. She doesn't want to be bothered pushing, pulling, sliding or imposing other effects on her targets. She wants to move, hit, damage, and then wait her next turn. What would be the best character choice for her. The goal is to create a character whose powers don't give a lot of options. Basic attacks do [w], encounters do 2[w] and dailies do 4[w] (or thereabouts -- you get the drift). Any ideas? I'm thinking a fighter would be the best. Mark the target, hit it repeatedly until it dies, move on to next target. Throw some ideas out there!


EDITED TO ADD: Here is the consensus build basd on this thread:


Epimethea, the (eventual) elven demigoddess of Thoughtless Adventure!

Level by Level Build


  1. Race: Elven; Class: Ranger; Build: Archer; Abilities: Str 10, Con 13, Dex 18 (+2 elf), Int 10, Wis 13 (+2 elf), Cha 8; Skills: Acrobatics, Athletics, Endurance, Nature, Perception; Feat: Weapon Focus (bow); At-Will: Nimble Strike, Twin Strike; Encounter: Two-Fanged Strike; Daily: Split the Tree

  2. Feat: Lethal Hunter; Utility: Hunter's Privilege

  3. Encounter: Cut and Run

  4. Abilities: Dex +1, Con +1; Feat: Weapon Proficiency (Greatbow)

  5. Daily: Close Combat Shot

  6. Feat: Toughness; Utility: Evade Ambush

  7. Encounter: Hawk's Talon

  8. Abilities: Dex +1, Wis +1; Feat: Improved Initiative

  9. Daily: Attacks on the Run

  10. Feat: Alertness, Utility: Shed the Mark

  11. Paragon Path: Battlefield Archer Feat: Durable

  12. Feat: Hunter's Aim

  13. Encounter: Replace Hawk's Talon with Bloodlust Strike

  14. Abilities: Dex +1, Wis +1, Feat: Great Fortitude

  15. Daily: Replace Close Combat Shot with Armor Piercing Shot

  16. Feat: Iron Will, Utility: Longstrider

  17. Encounter: Replace Two-Fanged Strike with Pounding Barrage

  18. Abilities: Dex +1, Wis +1, Feat: Lightning Reflexes

  19. Daily: Replace Split the Tree with Two-in-One Shot

  20. Feat: Elven Precision

  21. Epic Destiny: Demigod; Demigod Abilities: Dex +2, Wis +2; Feat: Unfettered Stride

  22. Feat: Flanking Maneuver, Utility: Preternatural Senses

  23. Encounter: Replace Cut and Run with Manticore's Volley

  24. Abilities: Dex +1, Wis +1, Feat: Fleet-Footed

  25. Daily: Replace Armor Piercing Shot with Unstoppable Arrows

  26. Feat: Surprise Action

  27. --

  28. Abilities: Dex +1, Wis +1, Feat: Peerless Hunter Encounter: Replace Manticore's Volley with Hail of Arrows

  29. Daily: Replace Unstoppable Arrows with Three-in-One Shot

  30. Feat: Brutal Accuracy

MAGIC ITEM RECOMMENDATIONS


  1. --

  2. Acrobat boots, Armor of Resistance (fire) +1, Belt of Vigor +1, Cloak of Resistance +1, Vicious Greatbow +1

  3. --

  4. Everlasting Provisions, Shimmering Armor +1

  5. --

  6. Bracers of Archery (heroic)

  7. Armor of Resistance (fire) +2, Cloak of Resistance +2, Vicious Greatbow +2

  8. Diadem of acuity

  9. Endless Canteen, Endless Quiver, Gloves of storing. Shimmering Armor +2

  10. Handy Haversack

  11. --

  12. Armor of Resistance (fire) +3, Belt of Vigor +2, Cloak of Resitance +3, Vicious Greatbow +3

  13. --

  14. Phasing Weapon +3, Ring of Feather Fall or Iron Ring of the Dwarven Lords, Shimmering Armor +3

  15. --

  16. Bracers of archery (paragon)

  17. Armor of Resistance (fire) +4, Cloak of Resitance +4

  18. --

  19. Phasing or Tenacious Greatbow +4, Shimmering Armor +4

  20. Flying Carpet

  21. --

  22. Armor of Resistance (fire) +5, Belt of Vigor +3, Cloak of Resistance +5

  23. --

  24. Phasing or Tenacious Greatbow +5, Ring of Regeneration, shimmering Armor +5

  25. --

  26. Bracers of archery (epic)

  27. Armor of Resistance (fire) +6, Cloak of Resistance +6

  28. --

  29. Phasing or Tenacious Greatbow +6, Shimmering Armor +6

And she should also have some cash along the way to buy a decent magical longsword and maybe outfit a steed.

What books do you have?
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All of them for 4th. But no Third-party materials, please.
Twin Sriking bow ranger.

The most complicated thing you have to do is to stay out of melee.

Fighter is awkward, you have to think about where things are, where to move to set up flanks and hit multiple enemies with your aoe effects to maintain marks on lots of things.
Wizard that focuses on damage rather than controlling. Most of your attacks will be magic missile or scorching burst. Pick powers that just damage and try to pick off enemies.
I'll add that almost any class this person plays will have a hard time really filling their party role.
I'll add that almost any class this person plays will have a hard time really filling their party role.

That doesn't bother me. The other players will fill out the roles.
We have a similar player in our group. I made her play a staff wizard with a staff of ruin and gave her area spells rather exclusively. She just stands in the sidelines and casts away.
I would select a Striker class for her. Defending requires some real thought about which targets to prioritize, Controllers require an understanding of tactical movement and the pace of combat, and Leaders seem a little too subtle in their contribution.

Rogues need to move smartly and setup combat advantage for their attacks. Go Brutal Scoundrel is she does like rogue.

A two-weapon Ranger would be pretty simple as a melee class. A bow ranger would be easy as well, just stay out of people's faces and shoot.

A warlock would require more movement and management of penalties/conditions.
Two-weapon, Strength/Dexterity ranger going for the Stormwarden paragon path. Very easy to build. This player would mainly pick pure damage powers like Jaws of the Wolf, Claws of the Griffon, Blade Cascade, etc. Use two scimitars and pick up the Scimitar Dance feat at Paragon tier for excellent DPR.

A Dex/Wis archery ranger works very well also. There may be slightly more thinking involved in staying out of melee and a few Wisdom-dependent rider effects on powers. But this option is also very easy to build and play.

The Art of Shredding details these builds and other, more complicated builds.

As previously stated, Fighter is probably not a good idea. The basic Combat Challenge/Combat Superiority mechanic requires some thought. Also, feat and power selection can be tricky, depending on what weapon the player uses and starting ability scores. If you really want to go fighter though, I'd recommend something like MC Hammer.

It should go without saying, but this player should steer well clear of the Warlord.
Polearm Fighter Build Thread:The Reacher
I have players in my group that are like that. It seems that the ranger works the best. The fighter and rogue must worry about positioning much more often because you will be in melee. To be effective in melee, you really have to set up to gain combat advantage while not granting it.
<\ \>tuntman
My wife who is in about the same situation, likes the social aspect more than the combat, plays an archery ranger. She has played a few characters and runs a game for me as well so we have seen lots of classes, and she swears by the Archery Dex/Wis ranger in terms of ease of play, while still being very useful to the party, its pretty simple, stay outa melee (rangers have very easy to use utilities that make this easy) and shoot people.
I'll have to throw my hat into agreement with a Ranger, secondary choice is wizard.

Ranged archer is better then 2-weapon; although CA isn't necessary, it certainly helps. and with a 2-weapon ranger, she might put herself into a position where she'll be ginsued in return. Or put herself in positions to ruin the wizard's tactics

If she lots to attack lots of things, then a Wizard is also a good choice. Problem is, if she doesn't pay attention, or other party members don't think tactically, she'll end up roasting players with her AoEs.

Strangely enough, a Leader is almost as bad (if not worse) then a fighter for this type of player. Leaders who don't pay attention = dead party. They also tend to use more actions then most other roles (except, maybe fighters).
I also agree with the Ranger idea. Most of the powers are pretty simple.

The great irony of this is that in 4E, most of the classes have at least a few 'interesting' abilities.
Ranger.

MAYBE an Infernal Pact Warlock -- most of their powers are all about damage, although there are some temporary HP issues to track.

I would not want this player being the party's only defender or leader, for sure. They will get others killed. There could be problems if they are the only controller too.
3rd edition fighter/barbarian with the emphasis on barbarian. Oh, you want 4th edition... 4th edition does not support easy to play PCs in the way that previous editions did. It was a part of the design goals that were supposed to make non-spellcasters as interesting to play as spellcasters and which (supposedly) brought all characters to a level of parity somewhere between the simple and the complex characters of previous editions.

That said, I think that the simplest 4th edition character to create is probably an archery focused ranger. Most of the time, your actions will be: quarry, twin strike, kill and if the party leader wants to mark a target for you with Blazing Beacon or Warlord's Strike, they can tell you who to point the d20 at.

You still have a bunch of powers that you will have to pick, but you can come up with some fairly simple and still fairly optimal tactics.

For instance:
elf archery ranger
At will: Twin Strike and... well, who cares what the other one is; Twin Strike is about the only one you will be using.
Racial Encounter: Elven accuracy
Level 1 Encounter: Two Fanged Strike
Level 1 daily: Split the tree
Level 2 Utility: Hunter's Privilege
Level 3 encounter: Disruptive Strike

Tactics:
Initiative is rolled: if you win, use Hunter's Privilege
Round 1: pick a target, quarry it, and Two Fanged Strike it.
Round 1: If it did not die, use an action point (if you have one) and Twin Strike it.
Round 1 Interrupt: Use Disruptive Strike on the first attack any enemy makes
Round 2:.... Twin Strike

If you miss, use Elven Accuracy to re-roll the miss.
If an encounter looks difficult, pick a bloodied target and a nearby target and use Split the Tree.
If the leader is giving you a bonus to hit a target or when you hit a target, shoot that target.

As fourth edition goes, that is a fairly simple set of tactics that will work fairly well in most situations. A good player, would, of course, vary the tactics and would use movement to maximum effect, but a "smoke em if you've got em" archery ranger as described above gets the complicated powers out of the way quickly and just gets down to the basics: Quarrying and Twin Striking anything that moves. It's not as simple as "Rage and charge. Full attack. Or charge," but it may well be enough to work for a player who does not want combat to be complicated.

It is, however, about the only kind of 4th edition character that works for. Leader?!? Forget it. The leader paying attention is the difference between a cake walk and a TPK and the thrill of putting together a good combo that lets someone make four attacks at with a +5 bonus to hit and +8 bonus to damage, or forces a foe to suck up divine challenge damage or provoke two OAs for the privilege of walking into a flank is what makes playing a leader fun.

Defender? Again, forget it. Playing a defender is all about positioning, balancing the need to contribute focused fire with the need to maintain battlefield position to control the enemies' movement and to attack or otherwise maintain marks in order to control aggro. Playing a defender is all about tactical minutia.

Controller? Again, not a chance. Playing a wizard is about optimal placement of area effects, picking the right defense to target, and marshaling your powers to block line of sight, move your foes where you want them, and trap your opponents inside zones of death. Again, playing an effective wizard is about paying attention to the tactical minutia.

Even strikers can get complex.
Warlocks are basically single target controllers rather than strikers and, like wizards have to make their powers work together, target the right defense, and use the right damage type for each monster in order to be effective.

Rogues have to study the battlefield in order to gain Combat Advantage and have to weigh the risks involved with reaching a position to sneak attack against the damage they will deal. That requires close attention to the layout of the battlefield and anticipating the reactions of the monsters to ensure that you do not expose yourself too much. As you increase in level, rogue powers also have an increasing number of secondary effects. Stunned. Blinded. Slide. Push. Grants combat advantage. Dazed. Save ends. Until the start of your next turn. Until the end of your next turn. The tactical algorithm is still simpler than a leader, defender, or controller, or even a warlock, but it is not simple.

Two weapon rangers are easier but they tend to be fragile (the twin craghammer dwarf ranger is probably the most tactically forgiving build (massive hit points and surges cover a multitude of sins), but it is not intuitive to create or advance). They also depend upon positioning more than archery rangers since moving to a flank makes a huge difference in their expected damage output. Archery rangers, by contrast, are more simple and are well supported by the game to the degree that the obvious damage only choices are also reasonably close to optimal.
good build for her:

Elven Ranger
S 10
C 13
D 20
I 10
W 15
C 8
hp: 30, surges 7; surge value 7
AC: 18, Fort 12, Refl 16, Wil 12
Ranger Style: 2-weapon (Archery Style adds complication)*
Feats: Toughness (free), WF: Bows**
Skills: Nature, Acrobatics, Athletics, Perception, Stealth
Gear: Longbow, Hide Armor, Standard Adventurer's Kit, 60 arrows, 22 gp.

*if you plan this game to go to Paragon, then give her 'Archery' style for Battlefield Archer PP). This gives her Defensive Mobility (instead of Toughness), which reduces her HP to 25 and surge value to 6.
**with longbow, RBA is 1d10+6, Twin Strike is 1d10+1. If she prefers to roll a bigger damage die, instead give her WP: Greatbow (RBA = 1d12+5, Twin Strike is 1d12).


See Elder_Basilisk's post for powers and tactics (other at-will should probably be Nimble Strike)
Ths is great help guys. Thanks!
good build for her:

Elven Ranger
S 10
C 13
D 20
I 10
W 15
C 8
hp: 30, surges 7; surge value 7
AC: 18, Fort 12, Refl 16, Wil 12
Ranger Style: 2-weapon (Archery Style adds complication)*
Feats: Toughness (free), WF: Bows**
Skills: Nature, Acrobatics, Athletics, Perception, Stealth
Gear: Longbow, Hide Armor, Standard Adventurer's Kit, 60 arrows, 22 gp.

*if you plan this game to go to Paragon, then give her 'Archery' style for Battlefield Archer PP). This gives her Defensive Mobility (instead of Toughness), which reduces her HP to 25 and surge value to 6.
**with longbow, RBA is 1d10+6, Twin Strike is 1d10+1. If she prefers to roll a bigger damage die, instead give her WP: Greatbow (RBA = 1d12+5, Twin Strike is 1d12).


See Elder_Basilisk's post for powers and tactics (other at-will should probably be Nimble Strike)

Definitely Nimble Strike. (Not that it will matter often )

I would be leery about the proposed build for a player who comes for the social interaction side of the game, however, since it does not have any social skills.

Reducing the Dex to 18 would allow a higher Wisdom or Charisma (or possibly both) which would enable the character to perform better in the social situations. It is not a max damage build like the one proposed above, but it would enable the character to be better at the kind of things that the player may enjoy.

That said, I looked at the original post again and I may have been too quick to pass judgement upon the brutal scoundrel rogue. A brutal scoundrel rogue could be constructed along those lines:

Eladrin brutal scoundrel rogue

Str 16
Dex 18
Con 12
Int 12
Wis 8
Cha 12

Skills: Stealth, Thievery, Acrobatics, Athletics, Streetwise, Bluff, Diplomacy (eladrin skill training)

Feats: Double Sword proficiency, 2: Backstabber, 4: slaying action (this lets you stop worrying whether or not you already applied sneak attack this turn) 6. Surprising Charge, 8. Nimble Blade, 10: Weapon focus: Light blade
Skills:

hp: 24, surges 7; surge value 6
AC: 17, Fort 13, Refl 16, Wil 12

Powers:
At-will: Deft Strike, Piercing Strike, Riposte Strike
1. Torturous Strike
1 daily: Precise Incision
2 Utility: Tumble
3 encounter: Nasty Backswing
5 daily: Surefooted Retort
Utility 6: Ignoble Escape
Encounter 7: Rogue's Luck
Daily 9: Knockout (I know, conditions, but you really just Knockout and then Precise Incision for the crit+kill)

Tactics: if you win initiative, shoot the nearest target with your hand crossbow, throw a shuriken, or charge.
Round 2: tumble to a flank, use torturous strike
The first attack to miss, use Nasty Backswing
Round 3 and thereafter: Move to flank, piercing strike
If you cannot move to a flank, fey step to a flank
If you are getting beat up, switch to Riposte Strike

If you get flank on a nasty badguy, use Precise Incision
At level 5, if a big bad guy attacks you, use Surefooted Retort

This build requires a bit more thought WRT positioning and drawing aggro, but with one teleport and two massive encounter shifts, getting where you want to be should be less of a problem. It also does have Riposte Strike and Surefooted Retort which are: act out of your turn powers but both have relatively simple triggers. It also has Surprising Charge which adds a little complexity and could easily be replaced with Improved Initiative.

I would rate it as more complex than the ranger, but it is less complex than a lot of characters--get flank, sneak attack, deal damage, wait until your next turn. It also has the advantage of being able to take and be reasonably effective with the skills used in social situations that you mentioned the player enjoys.

I considered an artful dodger who would be better in social situations, but the problem is that artful dodgers are most effective with all of the powers that you mentioned she does not want: push/pull/slide/daze/end of next turn/start of next turn/ongoing damage/etc.

Likewise, I considered the two blade ranger. It is less position dependent than the brutal scoundrel rogue but comes with several big disadvantages.
1. It is more complex than the archer rogue but no better at the social skills. Therefore there is no payoff for the increased complexity.
2. It tends to make more use of act outside the turn powers--yield ground (because you are less likely to win init, Hunter's Privilige is not always a good choice), etc, and the ones that it shares with the archer (disruptive strike) are a bit more complex to use than they are with the archer.
3. Minor action attacks which are highly optimal make the decision tree more complex. Do I hunter's quarry or off-hand strike?
I would be leery about the proposed build for a player who comes for the social interaction side of the game, however, since it does not have any social skills.

She enjoys the OOG social interaction, not the in-game social roleplaying. She kibbitzes with friends, she loves to cook for everyone, and then when her initiative comes up, she sits down, points to an enemy and says, "I want to kill that one."

She's a great friend, and she enjoys every session, even if she doesn't participate much (and she's a great cook!)

But she's got no patience for keeping track of conditions and pushing, pulling or sliding people around. She wants to roll a hit and then roll damage. That's it.

Tactics: if you win initiative, shoot the nearest target with your hand crossbow, throw a shuriken, or charge.
Round 2: tumble to a flank, use torturous strike
The first attack to miss, use Nasty Backswing
Round 3 and thereafter: Move to flank, piercing strike
If you cannot move to a flank, fey step to a flank
If you are getting beat up, switch to Riposte Strike

If you get flank on a nasty badguy, use Precise Incision
At level 5, if a big bad guy attacks you, use Surefooted Retort

This is exactly the sort of thing she won't want. That's too much tactics for her.
What about a barbarian? Most powers do damage+temp hp or damage+prone (is prone to much to handle? ;))
Tiefling Wizard with a whole bunch of Fire spells and Hellfire Blood. Pretty much every spell is "drop fire on square X."
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What about a barbarian? Most powers do damage+temp hp or damage+prone (is prone to much to handle? ;))

Barbarian is a bad idea. They have lots of little powers that you need to keep track of in order to Survive

Rageblood vigor THP
Flanking (You need flanking!)
Swift Charge
Rampage
what can (howling strike) and cannot be used on a charge (most others)
when to rage
how rage affects your AW and other stats/abilities,
etc.

and thats just at level 1.

With Elven ranger, its point and click, esp with Eldar_Basilisk's powers + tactics. Just don't let her waste her 2-fanged strike on minions :P

Tiefling Wizard with a whole bunch of Fire spells and Hellfire Blood. Pretty much every spell is "drop fire on square X."

Wizards do low damage (less chance to 'shine') and have to worry about party members wandering into their AoE. Esp if she doesn't pay attention. But, this does work if all the melee allies have Black Iron Armor :D
Okay. I took the consensus' advice and made an archery ranger for her. Stated it out 1st through 30th.

1st: Elven Rancher, Archer Battlefield Style
Abilities: Str 10, Con 12, Dex 18 +2 elf), Int 10, Wis 14 (+2 elf), Cha 8
Skills: Acrobatic, Endurance, Nature, Perception, Stealth
Feat: Weapon Focus (bow)
At-Will: Careful Attack, Twin Strike
Encounter: Singular Shot
Daily: Split the Tree
2nd: Feat: Lethal Hunter, Utility: Hunter's Privilege
3rd: Encounter: Shadow Wasp Strike
4th: Abilities: Dex +1, Wis +1, Feat: Alertness
5th: Daily: Close Combat Shot
6th: Feat: Toughness, Utility: Evade Ambush
7th: Encounter: Hawk's Talon
8th: Abilities: Dex +1, Wis +1, Feat: Durable
9th: Daily: Close Quarters Shot
10th: Feat: Far Shot, Utility: Shed the Mark
11th: Battlefield Archer PP, Feat: Hunter's Aim
12th: Feat: Distant Shot
13th: Encounter: Replace Singular Shot with Bloodlust Strike
14th: Abilities: Dex +1, Wis +1, Feat: Iron Will
15th: Daily: Replace Close Combat Shot with Armor Piercing Shot
16th: Feat: Great Fortitutde, Utility: Longstrider
17th: Encounter: Replace Shadow Wasp Strike with Pounding Barrage
18th: Abilities: Dex +1, Wis +1, Feat: Lightning Reflexes
19th: Daily: Replace Split the Tree with Two-in-One Shot
20th: Feat: Fleet-Footed
21st: Godslayer ED, Feat: Elven Precision
22nd: Feat: Unfettered Stride, Utility: Preternatural Senses
23rd: Encounter: Replace Hawk's Talon with Manticore's Volley
24th: Abilities: Dex +1, Wis +1, Feat: Flanking Maneuver
25th: Daily: Replace Armor Piercing Shot with Unstoppable Arrows
26th: Feat:Surprise Action
28th: Abilities: Dex +1, Wis +1, Feat: Peerless Hunter, Encounter: Replace Manticore's Volley with Hail of Arrows
29th: Daily: Replace Unstoppable Arrows with Three-in-One Shot.
30th: Feat: Brutal Accuracy

Almost none of her powers ever impose status effects, pushes, pulls or slides, grant benefits or ongoing damage. Some of them involve multiple attacks, and some of them are conditional. Most of the feats impose static benefits easy to apply.

What do people think? Any suggestions for magic items she should look to acquire, or that I should put into treasure parcels for her?
If you have a person who is willing to actually be a defender than let her play a 2hander Figher.

Step 1: Move up in to melee range
Step 2: Hit stuff
Step 3: Profit

Unlike Rangers you don't have to worry about being (comparatively)fragile, dealing with Hunter's Quarry, rolling more than one attack dice, or even moving into position for the best shot. An Archery Ranger or a Blaster Wizard still need skill and thought, but a 2hander Fighter(or maybe Paladin) takes little to no thought if someone else is actually doing the tanking.
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If you have a person who is willing to actually be a defender than let her play a 2hander Figher.

She'd be willing, but she wont' be able to keep track of when her mark attacks someone else. Most fighter powers involve status effects, like slow or prone or penalties for attacking others. I don't know I could draft a whole Fighter with powers that have no status effects (even if she could deal with the marks).

Unlike Rangers you don't have to worry about being (comparatively)fragile, dealing with Hunter's Quarry, rolling more than one attack dice, or even moving into position for the best shot.

Fragility is not much of a concern for an archer.
Hunter's Quarry is pretty easy. Pick a target. Hit the target. Do extra damage if you hit.
Moving into position doesn't seem to take much thought. Line of sight? Fire. Really, the trick is shifting out of reach to avoid opportunity attacks.
Abilities: Str 10, Con 12, Dex 18 +2 elf), Int 10, Wis 14 (+2 elf), Cha 8

Assuming these ability scores are before racial modifiers, these stats are too high by one point. 18 14 11 10 10 8 is the best you can do if you want both a natural 18 and a 14.

At-Will: Careful Attack, Twin Strike

I am required by law to point out that Careful Attack is a huge trap. It is mathematically worse than Twin Strike in pretty much every way. Even if she doesn't like shifting, Nimble Strike should come in handy every once in a while.

Feat: Weapon Focus (bow)
2nd: Feat: Lethal Hunter
4th: Feat: Alertness
6th: Feat: Toughness
8th: Feat: Durable
10th: Feat: Far Shot

Edit - You might as well pick up Weapon Proficiency - Greatbow (or Superior Crossbow if you prefer) as one of the early feats. More damage is more damage, afterall. I'd drop Far Shot, Alertness, or Durable for it.

9th: Daily: Close Quarters Shot

I don't like this power, since it might encourage the player to move close to an enemy, which is the last place this archer wants to be. Attacks on the Run is really good, and not that complicated.

Generally, a multiple attack power will not be very complex (as long as it doesn't inflict a status ailment). Multiple attacks are also what the ranger does best.

5th: Daily: Close Combat Shot
15th: Daily: Replace Close Combat Shot with Armor Piercing Shot
29th: Daily: Replace Unstoppable Arrows with Three-in-One Shot.

Must...resist... urge to cry at the loss of Spitting Cobra Stance, Confounding Arrows, and Five-Missile Dance....
Polearm Fighter Build Thread:The Reacher
What about a barbarian? Most powers do damage+temp hp or damage+prone (is prone to much to handle? ;))

I second the Barbarian. All you do is smack things and charge around. Good hack and slash fun.
My impressions:

Okay. I took the consensus' advice and made an archery ranger for her. Stated it out 1st through 30th.

1st: Elven Rancher, Archer Battlefield Style
Abilities: Str 10, Con 12, Dex 18 +2 elf), Int 10, Wis 14 (+2 elf), Cha 8
Skills: Acrobatic, Endurance, Nature, Perception, Stealth
Feat: Weapon Focus (bow)
At-Will: Careful Attack, Twin Strike

Careful attack is never a good idea. Tke Nimble Strike instead. It is situational, but realistically, 99% of the time she will want to twin strike.

Nimble strike is situationally useful however, and it is not much of a departure from the point and click strategy.

Encounter: Singular Shot

Two fanged strike is a far better power. I think that being just like twin strike only better is also an advantage for the point and click style.

Daily: Split the Tree
2nd: Feat: Lethal Hunter, Utility: Hunter's Privilege
3rd: Encounter: Shadow Wasp Strike

Even with the errata, I'm not a fan of Shadow Wasp Strike.

Disruptive strike can be point and click (and gets you to the point and click twin strike earlier).

If you don't want that, you can take Cut and Run. Two attacks with W+Dex and no-one is making you shift. (In fact, I suspect that most rangers who take it probably don't get anything out of the shift anyway).

4th: Abilities: Dex +1, Wis +1, Feat: Alertness
5th: Daily: Close Combat Shot
6th: Feat: Toughness, Utility: Evade Ambush
7th: Encounter: Hawk's Talon
8th: Abilities: Dex +1, Wis +1, Feat: Durable
9th: Daily: Close Quarters Shot

I would take Attacks on the Run here. Miles better damage and again, no-one is making you move. Just treat it as a pair of 3W attacks and it fits in the point and click strategy as "Twin Strike plus"

10th: Feat: Far Shot, Utility: Shed the Mark
11th: Battlefield Archer PP, Feat: Hunter's Aim
12th: Feat: Distant Shot
13th: Encounter: Replace Singular Shot with Bloodlust Strike

I recommended against Singlular Shot and I would replace Hawk's Talon with Bloodlust Strike at this level instead. That way, there is only encounter attack that is not just "Twin strike plus"

14th: Abilities: Dex +1, Wis +1, Feat: Iron Will
15th: Daily: Replace Close Combat Shot with Armor Piercing Shot
16th: Feat: Great Fortitutde, Utility: Longstrider
17th: Encounter: Replace Shadow Wasp Strike with Pounding Barrage

At this level, I would replace Two Fanged Strike with Pounding Barrage instead. (Also note that Pounding Barrage does have a condition if you hit with all three attacks and the only difference from Triple Shot is that you have the extra damage if two attacks hit and immobilization if all three hit; given the player's preferences, I might consider Triple Shot instead as a mostly comparable power that is more simple).

18th: Abilities: Dex +1, Wis +1, Feat: Lightning Reflexes
19th: Daily: Replace Split the Tree with Two-in-One Shot
20th: Feat: Fleet-Footed
21st: Godslayer ED, Feat: Elven Precision

I would think about Demigod instead. That way there's no fuss about what level the target is, just get +1 to hit and +1 damage against everything and stop worrying about it.

22nd: Feat: Unfettered Stride, Utility: Preternatural Senses
23rd: Encounter: Replace Hawk's Talon with Manticore's Volley

Under my scheme, you replace Disruptive Strike or Cut and Run with Manticore's Volley.

24th: Abilities: Dex +1, Wis +1, Feat: Flanking Maneuver
25th: Daily: Replace Armor Piercing Shot with Unstoppable Arrows
26th: Feat:Surprise Action
28th: Abilities: Dex +1, Wis +1, Feat: Peerless Hunter, Encounter: Replace Manticore's Volley with Hail of Arrows

Replace Bloodlust Strike with Hail of Arrows. Now, you are finally down to three encounter powers that are all "Twin Strike plus"

29th: Daily: Replace Unstoppable Arrows with Three-in-One Shot.

Five Missile dance is so much better than Three in One shot... in order to keep it simple, since you are the DM, I recommend the following power instead:

Five Missile Snare.
As 5 missile dance, but without the fancy stuff. 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 targets. You make 5 attacks for 2W+Dex each with half damage on a miss. No shifts, no pushes, no prone, no immobilization. Just point, click, kill.

30th: Feat: Brutal Accuracy

Almost none of her powers ever impose status effects, pushes, pulls or slides, grant benefits or ongoing damage. Some of them involve multiple attacks, and some of them are conditional. Most of the feats impose static benefits easy to apply.

What do people think? Any suggestions for magic items she should look to acquire, or that I should put into treasure parcels for her?

Weapon: heroic tier: Point Blank Weapon. An encounter power that lets her get out of OAs free for one encounter and keep pointing and clicking and a useful property that can simply be stacked with Defensive Mobility and forgotten. At mid to high paragon tier, a tenacious weapon. A very nice but simple encounter power that you can point, click, and forget about.

Armor: Assassinbane armor or Armor of Resistance. Both are useful. Both are point and click. Armor of resistance is probably better though because her perception should be high enough that she is rarely surprised anyway.

Neck slot: Cloak of Survival. Always on resistance. No actions or thought required. (Also very nice).

Arms: Bracers of Archery. Point. Click. Do More Damage.

Hands: Gloves of Storing. Don't worry about where to store the bow. It's always handy.

Head: Diadem of Acuity. Less likely to be surprised. Good for party, good for her.

Belt: Belt of Vigor +1, +2, or +3. Become tougher. Write on character sheet. Thought is a one-time cost.

Boots: Actobat Boots. Standing up is easy now. Useful and simple.

Rings:
Ring of Feather Fall (lvl 14). You don't fall. Easy to remember. No special tactics required.
Shadow Band (lvl 22). Add concealment to your defenses and move on. (Maybe close attacks and bursts/blasts add complexity here and the Ring of the Dwarven Lords or Ring of Regeneration would be better).


Miscellaneous:
Endless Quiver. Don't track ammo anymore.
Everlasting Rations. Don't track food anymore.
Okay. I took the consensus' advice and made an archery ranger for her. Stated it out 1st through 30th.

1st: Elven Rancher, Archer Battlefield Style

"Howdy part'ner, y'all ever try to herd trees?"

"You one o' them leaf rustlers?"

Sorry, couldn't resist. Anyway, a couple of changes I propose are:
-take Athletics instead of Endurance; unless you will allow acrobatic stunts to replace a lot of things like jumping or climbing, you will need it more.
-take Improved Initiative instead of Far Shot; going first is always good, and a longbow's short range is 20 squares anyway.
That's Someone, with a capital S. "Cat's out of the bag on that one, isn't it? Who puts cats in bags, anyway? Cats hate bags." -Sheogorath, Oblivion
I'm rather amused by this discussion, since one of the players in my group appreciates the simplicity of the archer, and rarely uses her encounter powers (quarry + twin strike is good enough for the most part). It's a perfect "roll lots of damage and be happy you're contributing" build.

Another one-trick build is the Deft Strike / Superior Crossbow / Stealth rogue. The big trouble with this latter build is that it requires enough finesse to pull off the stealth dance that you realise that it's really, really boring.

As to items (Elder_Basilisk's post), can I suggest the Phasing weapon instead for paragon and epic? Its property simplifies things nicely: ignore cover and superior cover. At heroic, Vicious is no more complex than a regular magic weapon but more fun on a crit.
Excellent suggestions, everyone!! Okay. I've adopted many suggestions. (I won't be making homebrew variant powers for her.) Here's the new version:
Epimethea, the (eventual) elven demigoddess of Thoughtless Adventure!

  1. Elven Ranger, Archer Battlefield Style

    • Abilities: Str 10, Con 13, Dex 18 (+2 elf), Int 10, Wis 13 (+2 elf), Cha 8

    • Skills: Acrobatics, Athletics, Endurance, Nature, Perception

    • Feat: Weapon Focus (bow)

    • At-Will: Nimble Strike, Twin Strike

    • Encounter: Two-Fanged Strike

    • Daily: Split the Tree



    1. Feat: Lethal Hunter, Utility: Hunter's Privilege

    2. Encounter: Cut and Run

    3. Abilities: Dex +1, Con +1, Feat: Weapon Proficiency (Greatbow)

    4. Daily: Close Combat Shot

    5. Feat: Toughness, Utility: Evade Ambush

    6. Encounter: Hawk's Talon

    7. Abilities: Dex +1, Wis +1, Feat: Improved Initiative

    8. Daily: Attacks on the Run

    9. Feat: Alertness, Utility: Shed the Mark

    10. Battlefield Archer PP, Feat: Durable

    11. Feat: Hunter's Aim

    12. Encounter: Replace Hawk's Talon with Bloodlust Strike

    13. Abilities: Dex +1, Wis +1, Feat: Great Fortitude

    14. Daily: Replace Close Combat Shot with Armor Piercing Shot

    15. Feat: Iron Will, Utility: Longstrider

    16. Encounter: Replace Two-Fanged Strike with Pounding Barrage

    17. Abilities: Dex +1, Wis +1, Feat: Lightning Reflexes

    18. Daily: Replace Split the Tree with Two-in-One Shot

    19. Feat: Elven Precision

    20. Demigod ED, Demigod Abilities: Dex +2, Wis +2 Feat: Unfettered Stride, Retrain: Geat Fortitude for Robust Defenses

    21. Feat: Flanking Maneuver, Utility: Preternatural Senses, Retrain: Iron Will for Martial Mastery

    22. Encounter: Replace Cut and Run with Manticore's Volley, Abilities: Dex +1, Wis +1, Feat: Fleet-Footed, Retrain: Lightning Reflexes for Improved Primer Shot,

    23. Daily: Replace Armor Piercing Shot with Unstoppable Arrows

    24. Feat: Surprise Action

    25. Abilities: Dex +1, Wis +1, Feat: Peerless Hunter

    26. Encounter: Replace Manticore's Volley with Hail of Arrows

    27. Daily: Replace Unstoppable Arrows with Three-in-One Shot.

    28. Feat: Brutal Accuracy 

    MAGIC ITEM RECOMMENDATIONS

    1. --

    2. Acrobat boots, Armor of Resistance (fire) +1, Belt of Vigor +1, Cloak of Resistance +1, Vicious Greatbow +1

    3. --

    4. Everlasting Provisions

    5. --

    6. Bracers of Archery (heroic)

    7. Armor of Resistance (fire) +2, Cloak of Resistance +2, Vicious Greatbow +2

    8. Diadem of acuity

    9. Endless Canteen, Endless Quiver, Gloves of storing

    10. Handy Haversack

    11. --

    12. Armor of Resistance (fire) +3, Belt of Vigor +2, Cloak of Resitance +3, Vicious Greatbow +3

    13. --

    14. Phasing Weapon +3, Ring of Feather Fall or Iron Ring of the Dwarven Lords

    15. --

    16. Bracers of archery (paragon)

    17. Armor of Resistance (fire) +4, Cloak of Resitance +4

    18. --

    19. Phasing or Tenacious Greatbow +4

    20. Flying Carpet

    21. --

    22. Armor of Resistance (fire) +5, Belt of Vigor +3, Cloak of Resistance +5

    23. --

    24. Phasing or Tenacious Greatbow +5, Ring of Regeneration

    25. --

    26. Bracers of archery (epic)

    27. --

    28. Armor of Resistance (fire) +6, Cloak of Resistance +6

    29. Phasing or Tenacious Greatbow +6

    And she should also have some cash along the way to buy a decent magical longsword and maybe outfit a steed.
    Ranger is definately the simplest class in the game to play, archer ranger more so than melee (at least the melee one has to move). At worst you won't be making use of prime shot as best as you can.

    Any rogue will be worthless without combat advantage most rounds, therefore they require a fair bit of thought.

    The stand-and-blast wizard is the least effective form of wizard.

    Defenders need to be played with some thought, or they're awful.
    I would vote for Feylock or even a rogue sniper.

    The rouge can certainly avoid damage better (through wise stealth/deft striking) and the feylock only has to move to get concealment and can teleport to should they get boxed in by the baddies. The rogue could go artful dodger if they want to social skill when out of combat, but if they only want to excel in combat go Brutal Scoundrel. The Brute will definitely want to snipe with the loss of OA defense bonuses, but use of stealth/deft strike should give CA almost every round with DEX and STR added to damage dice.

    I say this involves nearly no thought, once you realize how stealth rules work. If this is a new player, they will not have preconceptions and likely will less confused that some oldtimers who seem perplexed at how to maintain CA as a rogue. 4th edition is a paradigm breaker.... get over it folks.
    I would vote for Feylock or even a rogue sniper.

    A ranger does pretty much the same as a rogue, but doesn't need to stealth dance. Every single round can be: mark closest target, fire two arrows. Maximum effectiveness, minimum input. Occasionally you may need to move to get line of sight or shift out of melee.

    Warlocks are definitely not a thoughtless class: to play effectively you should be targeting the appropriate defense, moving to curse more foes, and actively using your pact benefits and the secondary benefits of your non-eldritch blast at-will. Feylock especially is all about tactical positioning.
    It's been about a year since we looked at this build.  (See the complete build on the first post.)  Any recommendations for how to improve this build without complicating it?  All books may be used, so break out Martial Power 2 and have at it!
    Expertise
    Paragon/Robust Defenses
    Epic Fort/Ref/Will

    ... The rouge can ...



    Uh-oh Kiss try this:
    brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.p...



    **


    wrecan - your player may be better served by a Companion Character in DMG2. Seriously.
    linky ---> community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
    The stats are all (level) based instead of needing a build-o-rama, to go to waste.
    Human as Monster works. Then make it a CC.
    3 attack powers only, say 1 Melee, 1 Ranged, and 1 ~encounter but make them pick it.
    A few utilities
    Perception and Intimidate
    1 Magic Item only ... you could give them an Artifact later.
    They'll survive just fine, and have fewer choices to be chiseled by beer or pizza.

    Here comes your 19th forums breakdown ... ohh who's to blame, it ain't 5E driving you insane.

     

    A little late to the party here, but I suggest Shimmering Robes.  With Unarmored Agility, you can get your AC back, and you no longer provoke OAs from making a Ranged/Area attack.  Even less to think about.
    Thanks for the advice!  It's updated!
    PSG math says a CC ought to get a +2 to all attacks; easy enough.

    Here comes your 19th forums breakdown ... ohh who's to blame, it ain't 5E driving you insane.