Haelirin, My Drow PC Background: Help Wanted!

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Credit To Sockmonkey66 For Creating The Pics!


Haelirin Ak‘Ira, Male Drow Artful Dodger Rogue, Level 1
Background: Occupation - Hired Killer (+2 to Stealth)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES [After Racial Adjustments]
Str 10 (+0), Con 10 (+0), Dex 18 (+4), Int 12 (+1), Wis 8 (-1), Cha 18 (+4)

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 11 (+0), Con 11 (+0), Dex 16 (+3), Int 12 (+1), Wis 8 (-1), Cha 16 (+3)

AC: 16 (20 Vs. OA) Fort: 10 Reflex: 16 Will: 14
HP: 23 Surges: 6 Surge Value: 5

INITIATIVE: +4

SKILLS

    *  Bluff +9
    *  Insight +4
    *  Intimidate +11
    *  Perception +4
    *  Stealth +13
    *  Streetwise +9
    *  Thievery +9


RACIAL TRAITS:

    * Fey Origin
    * Trance
    * Lolthtouched


CLASS FEATURES:

    * First Strike (@ Start of Encounter, gain CA Vs. Any Targets Who Have Not Acted Yet In Encounter)
    * Rogue Tactics: Artful Dodger (+Cha Mod to AC Vs. OA)
    * Rogue Weapon Talent (+1 to attack roll for dagger)
    * Sneak Attack (+2d8, Requires CA Vs. Target)

FEATS
Rogue 1     Backstabber   Increase Sneak Attack damage dice to d8's


POWERS
At-Will 1: Deft Strike
At-Will 1: Sly Flourish
Encounter 1: Positioning Strike
Encounter [Racial, Lolthtouched]: Cloud of Darkness
Encounter [Racial, Lolthtouched]: Darkfire
Daily 1: Blinding Barrage


ITEMS
Hand Crossbow (x2), Daggers (x8), Leather Armor, Adventurer's Kit


 


Haelirin The [i]“Unstoppable Dreamer”[/i]


Background: For one whose name translates from the Drow tongue to Common as “Unstoppable Dreamer,” Haelirin’s life has been a testament to that namesake. Born in the Drow city of Erelhi-Cinlu, the Dark Gem of the Underdark, Haelirin was a true child of Lolth. Orphaned in his early childhood, his House falling in the chaos of the Priestess Wars. Forced into The House of Abandonment due to the loss of his family, Haelirin became one of the coldest and most ruthless Drow imaginable. Raised among the other orphans of the Ghetto of Artisans, Haelirin struggled for dominance over his weaker kin and the cruel overseers who pitted them against one another. Once he reached young adulthood, his life as a rake truly began. Rising from the poverty-stricken ranks of the “Abandoned,” Haelirin moved to the Ghetto of Performers. Joining up with the Riskallus Agency, he now serves as a guard, slaver-hunter (an abolitionist of sorts), and sellsword for one of the most infamous Agents in the business; working in the Underdark and the World Above with all manner of clients. He also occasionally works as a bouncer at the Demon’s Den, consorting with Zaetha and the other outcasts who he sees as kindred spirits.


Appearance: Keeping his hair cropped into a nest of spikes, Haelirin is a sight to behold. Clad in a full-length trench coat and lizard-skin boots, the young Drow makes his presence known when he decides to make an appearance. A customized hand crossbow rests on each hip, and dual bandoliers of ammo crisscross his chest. Peering out from behind a pair of stylized spectacles, Haelirin’s piercing eyes are like those of a predator eying its prey. His rather handsome features make him somewhat of a ladies-man, just another fact of his growing infamy.


Appearance (Identifying Marks): Haelirin bears numerous tattoos of Drow idioms. “Inorum lo’athi uvrastes” (“In darkness, there is opportunity“) is written across his shoulder blades , flanking a stylish spider design. “Su lidos verith” (“Only the strong survive“) is on the left side of his chest while “Alrenas Lolthu, nilos dulhar” (“Before Lolth, all are weak“) adorns the right side. In the center of his chest, the words “Artolth nilat unelte nilt peralath” (“A spider without a web is no hunter“) wraps around a decorative spider web. “Nilodi orhastho shiorell e farul” (Weakness is the spawn of contentment and affection”) and "Resilsh nielquosthos nilt resilsh" (Help freely offered is not free) is on the inside of his forearms, a constant reminder that everything comes at a price, and should not be squandered by those who earn it. "Elliya Lolthu" ("Test me, Lolth") encircles his neck just below his collar.


Personality: Though somewhat of a loner by nature, Haelirin is a puzzle within a puzzle. His frigid demeanor betrays nothing of his hard past, yet his fierce loyalty to those he is close to suggests an inward struggle to belong in a world that made him the outcast he is today.

For one whose name translates from the Drow tongue to Common as “Unstoppable Dreamer,” Haelirin’s life has been a testament to that namesake. Born in the Drow city of Erelhi-Cinlu, the Dark Gem of the Underdark, Haelirin was a true child of Lolth. Orphaned in his early childhood, his House falling in the chaos of the Priestess Wars. Forced into The House of Abandonment due to the loss of his family, Haelirin became one of the coldest and most ruthless Drow imaginable. Raised among the other orphans of the Ghetto of Artisans, Haelirin struggled for dominance over his weaker kin and the cruel overseers who pitted them against one another. Once he reached young adulthood, his life as a rake truly began. Rising from the poverty-stricken ranks of the “Abandoned,” Haelirin moved to the Ghetto of Performers. Joining up with the Riskallus Agency, he now serves as a guard, slave-hunter, and sellsword for one of the most infamous Agents in the business; working in the Underdark and the World Above with all manner of clients. He also occasionally works as a bouncer at the Demon’s Den, consorting with Zaetha and the other outcasts who he sees as kindred spirits.

Rather good. However, I'm curious as to his interactions with other people. How was he influenced by those around him; how did he influence them in turn? Did he have true friends, true rivalries, a nemesis, lovers, mentors?


Though somewhat of a loner by nature, Haelirin is a puzzle within a puzzle. His frigid demeanor betrays nothing of his hard past, yet his fierce loyalty to those he is close to suggests an inward struggle to belong in a world that made him the outcast he is today.

Well, it seems to me his frigid demeanor reveals his hard past. He's not used to compassion, so he doesn't show it. If he behaves as an introvert and as a loner, it would seem to most strangers that he's had a hard past. Also, why does he wish to find a place to belong? Love, kinship, a foothold for power, comfort, personal peace?


All in all, the character seems strong, and reminds me of my own current character, a half-drow rogue in FR.
My Sig
Reality is but the sum total of all illusions. Proud Hand of Karsus, now and forever Mess with one Hand, mess with 'em all I am Blue/Green
I am Blue/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
"just do what LM the lord of magical might does, and you'll be fine" - sfdragon, 10/12/09
Board Snippets
147048523 wrote:
"I don't like X, they should remove it." "I like X, they should keep it." "They should replace X with Y." "Anybody that likes X is dumb. Y is better." "Why don't they include both X and Y." "Yeah, everybody can be happy then!" "But I don't like X, they should remove it." "X really needs to be replaced with Y." "But they can include both X and Y." "But I don't like X, they need to remove it." "Remove X, I don't like it." Repeat. Obstinance?
56790678 wrote:
Until you've had an in-law tell you your choice of game was stupid, and just Warcraft on paper, and dumbed down for dumber players who can't handle a real RPG, you haven't lived. You haven't lived.
56902498 wrote:
Lady and gentlemen.... I present to you the Edition War without Contrition, the War of the Web, the Mighty Match-up! We're using standard edition war rules. No posts of substance. Do not read the other person's posts with comprehension. Make frequent comparison to video games, MMOs, and CCGs. Use the words "fallacy" and "straw man", incorrectly and often. Passive aggressiveness gets you extra points and asking misleading and inflammatory questions is mandatory. If you're getting tired, just declare victory and leave the thread. Wait for the buzzer... and.... One, two, three, four, I declare Edition War Five, six, seven eight, I use the web to Go!
57062508 wrote:
D&D should not return to the days of blindfolding the DM and players. No tips on encounter power? No mention of expected party roles? No true meaning of level due to different level charts or tiered classes? Please, let's not sacrifice clear, helpful rules guidelines in favour of catering to the delicate sensibilities of the few who have problems with the ascetics of anything other than what they are familiar with.
56760448 wrote:
Just a quick note on the MMORPG as an insult comparison... MMORPGs, raking in money by the dumptruck full. Many options, tons of fans across many audiences, massive resources allocated to development. TTRPGs, dying product. Squeaking out an existence that relys on low cost. Fans fit primarily into a few small demographics. R&D budgets small, often rushed to market and patched after deployment. You're not really making much of an argument when you compare something to a MMORPG and assume people think that means bad. Lets face it, they make the money, have the audience and the budget. We here on this board are fans of TTRPGs but lets not try to pretend none of us play MMORPGs.
90571711 wrote:
Adding options at the system level is good. Adding options at the table level is hard. Removing options at the system level is bad. Removing options at the table level is easy. This is not complicated.
57333888 wrote:
112760109 wrote:
56902838 wrote:
Something like Tactical Shift is more magical than martial healing.
Telling someone to move over a few feet is magical now? :| I weep for this generation.
Given the laziness and morbid obsesity amongst D&Ders, being able to convince someone to get on their feet, do some heavy exercise, and use their words to make them be healthier must seem magical.
158710691 wrote:
D&D definitely improves mental health; Just as long as you stay away from these forums ;)
Rather good. However, I'm curious as to his interactions with other people. How was he influenced by those around him; how did he influence them in turn? Did he have true friends, true rivalries, a nemesis, lovers, mentors?

Thank you very much LordManshoon!

His influences stemmed from the many "laws of the streets," growing up an orphan taught him that it was a hardened life to live as that of a houseless male drow in a matriarchal society, and he would witness that and all its cruelties firsthand. As far as him influencing others- those who were actually close to him (Riskallus, his lover Zaetha, and several others) know that beneath the hardened exterior lies a soul capable of great things that would one day bring him great fame, or infamy depending on how he played his role in life. His true friends, Riskallus (his Agent) Zaetha (his lover), as well an assorted bunch of others know his true self, that he is the calm before the storm- an unbridled force capable of devastating things...




Well, it seems to me his frigid demeanor reveals his hard past. He's not used to compassion, so he doesn't show it. If he behaves as an introvert and as a loner, it would seem to most strangers that he's had a hard past. Also, why does he wish to find a place to belong? Love, kinship, a foothold for power, comfort, personal peace?


All in all, the character seems strong, and reminds me of my own current character, a half-drow rogue in FR.

As I said, he's a bit of a conundrum. He tends not to speak of his past though by his outward (initial) appearance to most, it can be seen that he's suffered through some hardship. His "sense of belonging" stems from the loss of his House/Family during the Priestess Wars; and though being a Drow, and a male at that- I would think he'd be grateful for his freedom though I think perhaps he would've liked to use his House to his own gain and now he seeks to reestablish himself in the Drow society (building a web of contacts/associates/etc)
His influences stemmed from the many "laws of the streets," growing up an orphan taught him that it was a hardened life to live as that of a houseless male drow in a matriarchal society, and he would witness that and all its cruelties firsthand. As far as him influencing others- those who were actually close to him (Riskallus, his lover Zaetha, and several others) know that beneath the hardened exterior lies a soul capable of great things that would one day bring him great fame, or infamy depending on how he played his role in life. His true friends, Riskallus (his Agent) Zaetha (his lover), as well an assorted bunch of others know his true self, that he is the calm before the storm- an unbridled force capable of devastating things...

Again, I can see the similarities between our characters. If you don't mind, I'd like to interrogate to help flesh him out.

Do his friends fear what might happen if he was to lose his way? How does he relate specifically to his companions? Is it full trust, the belief that he has such a strong bond with these people that he can rely on them and open himself up, or is it partial trust, in that he feels for these people, but hesitates to reveal too much about himself, the result of his hard life? Would he die for these people, fight for them, aid them in their darkest moments? Would he consider abandoning them if their bond weakened, fleeing them if his life was in danger, selling them out for personal power?

As I said, he's a bit of a conundrum. He tends not to speak of his past though by his outward (initial) appearance to most, it can be seen that he's suffered through some hardship. His "sense of belonging" stems from the loss of his House/Family during the Priestess Wars; and though being a Drow, and a male at that- I would think he'd be grateful for his freedom though I think perhaps he would've liked to use his House to his own gain and now he seeks to reestablish himself in the Drow society (building a web of contacts/associates/etc)

So it's a mix of reasons. Cool. Tell me, if he was to build up his own personal power, would he reference his lineage in order to appeal to the traditionalists, or would he cover up his bloodline for fear of retaliation? Would he involve his friends/allies, or would he try to keep them away so that no harm would befall them?
My Sig
Reality is but the sum total of all illusions. Proud Hand of Karsus, now and forever Mess with one Hand, mess with 'em all I am Blue/Green
I am Blue/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
"just do what LM the lord of magical might does, and you'll be fine" - sfdragon, 10/12/09
Board Snippets
147048523 wrote:
"I don't like X, they should remove it." "I like X, they should keep it." "They should replace X with Y." "Anybody that likes X is dumb. Y is better." "Why don't they include both X and Y." "Yeah, everybody can be happy then!" "But I don't like X, they should remove it." "X really needs to be replaced with Y." "But they can include both X and Y." "But I don't like X, they need to remove it." "Remove X, I don't like it." Repeat. Obstinance?
56790678 wrote:
Until you've had an in-law tell you your choice of game was stupid, and just Warcraft on paper, and dumbed down for dumber players who can't handle a real RPG, you haven't lived. You haven't lived.
56902498 wrote:
Lady and gentlemen.... I present to you the Edition War without Contrition, the War of the Web, the Mighty Match-up! We're using standard edition war rules. No posts of substance. Do not read the other person's posts with comprehension. Make frequent comparison to video games, MMOs, and CCGs. Use the words "fallacy" and "straw man", incorrectly and often. Passive aggressiveness gets you extra points and asking misleading and inflammatory questions is mandatory. If you're getting tired, just declare victory and leave the thread. Wait for the buzzer... and.... One, two, three, four, I declare Edition War Five, six, seven eight, I use the web to Go!
57062508 wrote:
D&D should not return to the days of blindfolding the DM and players. No tips on encounter power? No mention of expected party roles? No true meaning of level due to different level charts or tiered classes? Please, let's not sacrifice clear, helpful rules guidelines in favour of catering to the delicate sensibilities of the few who have problems with the ascetics of anything other than what they are familiar with.
56760448 wrote:
Just a quick note on the MMORPG as an insult comparison... MMORPGs, raking in money by the dumptruck full. Many options, tons of fans across many audiences, massive resources allocated to development. TTRPGs, dying product. Squeaking out an existence that relys on low cost. Fans fit primarily into a few small demographics. R&D budgets small, often rushed to market and patched after deployment. You're not really making much of an argument when you compare something to a MMORPG and assume people think that means bad. Lets face it, they make the money, have the audience and the budget. We here on this board are fans of TTRPGs but lets not try to pretend none of us play MMORPGs.
90571711 wrote:
Adding options at the system level is good. Adding options at the table level is hard. Removing options at the system level is bad. Removing options at the table level is easy. This is not complicated.
57333888 wrote:
112760109 wrote:
56902838 wrote:
Something like Tactical Shift is more magical than martial healing.
Telling someone to move over a few feet is magical now? :| I weep for this generation.
Given the laziness and morbid obsesity amongst D&Ders, being able to convince someone to get on their feet, do some heavy exercise, and use their words to make them be healthier must seem magical.
158710691 wrote:
D&D definitely improves mental health; Just as long as you stay away from these forums ;)

Personality:

Though somewhat of a loner by nature, Haelirin is a puzzle within a puzzle. His frigid demeanor betrays nothing of his hard past, yet his fierce loyalty to those he is close to suggests an inward struggle to belong in a world that made him the outcast he is today.


Thats the only part that really comes up as incongrous to me. Drow society is vicious and unforgiving. Loyalty is a weakness to be exploited, friendship useful only as long as it is beneficial. Especially for one who pulled himself out of the dregs of society, and particularly one who works as essentially an infiltrator and bounty hunter.

Thats just me though, and I primarily play FR, so it may be a bit different.
Thats the only part that really comes up as incongrous to me. Drow society is vicious and unforgiving. Loyalty is a weakness to be exploited, friendship useful only as long as it is beneficial. Especially for one who pulled himself out of the dregs of society, and particularly one who works as essentially an infiltrator and bounty hunter.

Thats just me though, and I primarily play FR, so it may be a bit different.

It could all be a ruse my friend, make them think he's unquestionably loyal, then- BAM! Crossbow bolt through the carotid artery at the most opportune moment...it's all in the plan
Again, I can see the similarities between our characters. If you don't mind, I'd like to interrogate to help flesh him out.

Absolutely, I could definitely use some extra constructive & creative insight.


Do his friends fear what might happen if he was to lose his way?

Of course, he is a Drow after all.

How does he relate specifically to his companions?

Zaetha may be the only one he has nearly full trust in, there's always that twinge of doubt in the back of a Drow's mind...Riskallus falls into the same category since he's the only other "specifically named NPC" who directly relates to Haelirin; all others his view with outright mistrust and some hostility.

Is it full trust, the belief that he has such a strong bond with these people that he can rely on them and open himself up, or is it partial trust, in that he feels for these people, but hesitates to reveal too much about himself, the result of his hard life?

This. Partial.

Would he die for these people, fight for them, aid them in their darkest moments? Would he consider abandoning them if their bond weakened, fleeing them if his life was in danger, selling them out for personal power?

This, except maybe Zaetha & Riskallus; he may break the sterotypical Drow "use only for personal gain, dispose of afterward" axiom for them.


So it's a mix of reasons. Cool. Tell me, if he was to build up his own personal power, would he reference his lineage in order to appeal to the traditionalists, or would he cover up his bloodline for fear of retaliation?

Both. He would bring his old House into play (still debating on a suitable one for him, any ideas?) but he would be hesitant due to the numerous scandals it was linked to through other Houses (they are worried he may blackmail them and cause their Houses to fall as well)

Would he involve his friends/allies, or would he try to keep them away so that no harm would befall them?

They would be involved as far as they were useful to him, but he would keep Zaetha and Riskallus from true harm.
Could someone refer to the 1st post and review the build there? I really need help figuring out if that's the best potential for him for 1st level, I want him to be in his prime throughout his upcoming campaign career
So since the Drow are so forgiving of slights and desertions (sarcasm), would it be safe to assume that lil' ol' Haerlin is prime rib for Drow bounty hunters and fences? Seems to me that this brooding tub of "Unstobbale Dreaming" is hell-bent on rocking the proverbial establishment and trying to look good doing it, but hey, which DnD character isn't?

Never been a big fan of the Drow. Even the casual viewer of Dragon Ball Z would know that human-looking pretty boys with grey/purple skin are bad mojo, which begs the question of how our protagonist dreams unstoppably without someone trying to stop him from unstoppably dreaming? (poor word choice)

I like this Drow, though. He's gangster. Growing up in the ghettos of an underground city ruled by a bunch of spider-chicks. One would be led to believe that his testosterone toting tendencies would've been curtailed by the erroneous estrogen evildoers that run poor old Haerlin's life, but by your description our home-boy is ready to pop a (wooden?) cap into the flubbery, protective-panty lined establishment booty that is Drow matriarchal dictatorship.

Here's the real question you should be asking: What fantastical substitute for mousse are you going to invent to justify that hairstyle?
So since the Drow are so forgiving of slights and desertions (sarcasm), would it be safe to assume that lil' ol' Haerlin is prime rib for Drow bounty hunters and fences? Seems to me that this brooding tub of "Unstobbale Dreaming" is hell-bent on rocking the proverbial establishment and trying to look good doing it, but hey, which DnD character isn't?

There are several matron-sponsored hit squads after him; he's attempting to establish a male-dominant House...

Never been a big fan of the Drow. Even the casual viewer of Dragon Ball Z would know that human-looking pretty boys with grey/purple skin are bad mojo, which begs the question of how our protagonist dreams unstoppably without someone trying to stop him from unstoppably dreaming? (poor word choice)

Lol. So true. Unstoppable Dreamer is what his name actually translates into (Haelirin is a random Drow male name from the FR PHB for 4th ED...I liked it, and looked up the meaning in that 3.5 book Drow of the Underdark)

I like this Drow, though. He's gangster. Growing up in the ghettos of an underground city ruled by a bunch of spider-chicks. One would be led to believe that his testosterone toting tendencies would've been curtailed by the erroneous estrogen evildoers that run poor old Haerlin's life, but by your description our home-boy is ready to pop a (wooden?) cap into the flubbery, protective-panty lined establishment booty that is Drow matriarchal dictatorship.

Damn right. He's a member of an underground crime syndicate (actually the Riskallus Agency from the aforemention 3.5 book) and he's trying to create his own male-dominant House...total badass...also thought about keeping the "hand crossbows" in the pics just like they are (gun style) and saying he shoots sling bullets rather than bolts...would that be too difficult? Same stats as the hand crossbow, just reflavoured)

Here's the real question you should be asking: What fantastical substitute for mousse are you going to invent to justify that hairstyle?

Lolth's Priestess' blood, of course! lol! (actually i thought about that too, maybe spiderweb ichor?)
I like this Drow, though. He's gangster. Growing up in the ghettos of an underground city ruled by a bunch of spider-chicks. One would be led to believe that his testosterone toting tendencies would've been curtailed by the erroneous estrogen evildoers that run poor old Haerlin's life, but by your description our home-boy is ready to pop a (wooden?) cap into the flubbery, protective-panty lined establishment booty that is Drow matriarchal dictatorship.

Obviously haven't played a Drow campaign. High Priestesses of Lloth don't wear panties, they have open accounts at every fetish shop in town! Leather and steel all the way. :D

Here's the real question you should be asking: What fantastical substitute for mousse are you going to invent to justify that hairstyle?

In a world wear alchemical potions and compounds, not to mention magic, run rampant, should be fairly easy to find a stiffening hair gel.

Or, you murdered an Air Genasi, scalped him, and transplanted it upon your own head.......I like that one........;)
Obviously haven't played a Drow campaign. High Priestesses of Lloth don't wear panties, they have open accounts at every fetish shop in town! Leather and steel all the way. :D

Lol, not to mention their penchant for whips...:P

In a world wear alchemical potions and compounds, not to mention magic, run rampant, should be fairly easy to find a stiffening hair gel.

Or, you murdered an Air Genasi, scalped him, and transplanted it upon your own head.......I like that one........;)

Quite possible lol :D
OK well, I've got a plan...using the Riskallus Agency (Drow of the Underdark 3.5 book) as a front, Haelirin will attempt to establish a male-run House (basically an organized crime family, sort of mob-like I guess)

Possible names for the new House, all translated from Drow language:

Ak'Ira - Hidden one who arrives with darkness*
In'Vol - Vanguard of the Blood
Val'e'fein - Hand of Vengeance

Have several other ideas on hand, but feel free to add your own.


*Most likely using this one, seeing as it implies the stealthy knife-in-the-dark killer kind of feel*

**Quite possibly creating another deity, perhaps a mortal Drow much like the infamous Zinzerena (except it'll be male) that rose from the downtrodden ranks of Lolth's followers and now actively opposes the matriarch-dominant society ruled by Lolth's Priestesses because of their destruction wrought during the Priestess Wars. He'll be a male Drow god of subtlety, darkness, etc (perfect for assassins and the like) what do you guys think?


Also, on a side note- I'm remaking Haelirin into a rogue and Multiclassing into Warlock (Dark Pact), do you think it'll change the flavor much? And does this build seem good? which option for the PP is better?

Rogue/MC Darklock??/Shadow Assassin( or Dark Reckoner???)/Demigod??

**EDIT** Updated First Post with new stats!
OK well, I've got a plan...using the Riskallus Agency (Drow of the Underdark 3.5 book) as a front, Haelirin will attempt to establish a male-run House (basically an organized crime family, sort of mob-like I guess)

Possible names for the new House, all translated from Drow language:

Ak'Ira - Hidden one who arrives with darkness*
In'Vol - Vanguard of the Blood
Val'e'fein - Hand of Vengeance

Have several other ideas on hand, but feel free to add your own.


*Most likely using this one, seeing as it implies the stealthy knife-in-the-dark killer kind of feel*

**Quite possibly creating another deity, perhaps a mortal Drow much like the infamous Zinzerena (except it'll be male) that rose from the downtrodden ranks of Lolth's followers and now actively opposes the matriarch-dominant society ruled by Lolth's Priestesses because of their destruction wrought during the Priestess Wars. He'll be a male Drow god of subtlety, darkness, etc (perfect for assassins and the like) what do you guys think?


Also, on a side note- I'm remaking Haelirin into a rogue and Multiclassing into Warlock (Dark Pact), do you think it'll change the flavor much? And does this build seem good? which option for the PP is better?

Rogue/MC Darklock??/Shadow Assassin( or Dark Reckoner???)/Demigod??

**EDIT** Updated First Post with new stats!

Read up on the FR group Jaezred Chaulssin, they're a widespread group of Male Assassins spread throughout most of the Drow City-States. 'Course, most of them are also half Shadow-Dragon, but its a pretty good basis for your own organization. Theres also Bregan D'aerthe, a mercenary group out of Menzoberranzan. Similar, though they have no real agenda per se, and establish contracts with the highest bidder, working in assassination, information, aquisitions, import/export of the smuggled variety, ect.

The Jaezred Chaulssin happen to worship the FR deity Vhaeraun, the Drow Diety of Thieves, Male Drow, Shadows, ect. 'Course he's dead, but thats a pretty easy re-fluff, or gives you a basis for your own deity.

As far as the Dark Pact, it depends. With it, you're basically selling your soul to a Demon, rather than a Devil, but it does fit. I've got a female Drow Dark'lock, who was born a commoner. Instead of devoting herself to Lloth, and spending years becoming a Priestess, she made a pact with Rhyxali the Demon Princess of Shadows and Secrets. Kind of a fast-track to power type thing.
Read up on the FR group Jaezred Chaulssin, they're a widespread group of Male Assassins spread throughout most of the Drow City-States. 'Course, most of them are also half Shadow-Dragon, but its a pretty good basis for your own organization. Theres also Bregan D'aerthe, a mercenary group out of Menzoberranzan. Similar, though they have no real agenda per se, and establish contracts with the highest bidder, working in assassination, information, aquisitions, import/export of the smuggled variety, ect.

I will be taking many aspects from the JAezred Chaulsin & Bregan D'aerthe, as well as some things from Menzo- Menzo still exists in my campaign, Erelhi-Cinlu is just another massive Drow city as well.

The Jaezred Chaulssin happen to worship the FR deity Vhaeraun, the Drow Diety of Thieves, Male Drow, Shadows, ect. 'Course he's dead, but thats a pretty easy re-fluff, or gives you a basis for your own deity.

Maybe Vhaeraun could be resurrected in another form? (Ie. Vhaeraun's spirit possessing a mortal and ascending to godhood through him) New name/etc to turn away suspicion from Lolth's Priestesses...

As far as the Dark Pact, it depends. With it, you're basically selling your soul to a Demon, rather than a Devil, but it does fit. I've got a female Drow Dark'lock, who was born a commoner. Instead of devoting herself to Lloth, and spending years becoming a Priestess, she made a pact with Rhyxali the Demon Princess of Shadows and Secrets. Kind of a fast-track to power type thing.

Like I said previously, maybe it could be Vhaeruan in a new form; perhaps his soul was cast into the Abyss where he was born into a demonic form, enabling him to posses the aforementioned mortal (his new form) and ascend back to godhood through him...does that make sense?
Maybe Vhaeraun could be resurrected in another form? (Ie. Vhaeraun's spirit possessing a mortal and ascending to godhood through him) New name/etc to turn away suspicion from Lolth's Priestesses...





Like I said previously, maybe it could be Vhaeruan in a new form; perhaps his soul was cast into the Abyss where he was born into a demonic form, enabling him to posses the aforementioned mortal (his new form) and ascend back to godhood through him...does that make sense?

Lets see....When he was killed the first time, it was in a failed assassination attempt against his sister Eilistraee. She killed him, and assumed his portfolio essentially becoming the Masked Lady, incorporating elements of both deities. She died however, so we can assume Vhaeruan's essence was released.

I'm working basically with FR cosmology so bear with me, but when a deity dies, their corpse is more or less a floating island upon the Astral Sea. Perhaps when the Spellplague tore through, Vhaeruan's divine essence was sent to the Abyss, where he incorporated into a Demon Prince. Another option being one of his High Priests ressurected him, and he reincorporated as a Demon Prince. Not a God anymore, but close, and powerful enough to have mortal worshippers.

Pretty easily justified, since Vhaeruan's realm was within the Demonwed Pits, the 66th layer of the Abyss, before Lloth's transformation. Theres also a precedent, sort of, with Orcus. He was a Demon Prince who attained Godhood, and when he died and was ressurected, he lost his divinity and became a Demon Prince again. Not the same, but fairly close.

Thats my issue with the whole end of 3e in FR. They killed off my two favorite deities, Mask and Vhaeruan. At least it was alluded to that Mask is likely to return in some form.
Lets see....When he was killed the first time, it was in a failed assassination attempt against his sister Eilistraee. She killed him, and assumed his portfolio essentially becoming the Masked Lady, incorporating elements of both deities. She died however, so we can assume Vhaeruan's essence was released.

I'm working basically with FR cosmology so bear with me, but when a deity dies, their corpse is more or less a floating island upon the Astral Sea. Perhaps when the Spellplague tore through, Vhaeruan's divine essence was sent to the Abyss, where he incorporated into a Demon Prince. Another option being one of his High Priests ressurected him, and he reincorporated as a Demon Prince. Not a God anymore, but close, and powerful enough to have mortal worshippers.

Pretty easily justified, since Vhaeruan's realm was within the Demonwed Pits, the 66th layer of the Abyss, before Lloth's transformation. Theres also a precedent, sort of, with Orcus. He was a Demon Prince who attained Godhood, and when he died and was ressurected, he lost his divinity and became a Demon Prince again. Not the same, but fairly close.

Thats my issue with the whole end of 3e in FR. They killed off my two favorite deities, Mask and Vhaeruan. At least it was alluded to that Mask is likely to return in some form.

Well my friend, are you up for working on this with me? I think together we could come up with something pretty conceivably wicked.

**EDIT** Do me a huge favor also, check the 1st post and see if his remade Rogue stats are correct/good. Thanks!
Sure, i'll throw in some help lol. I'm just sitting at work, bored out of my mind, waiting for tonight. Might even help myself work out a few ideas for my Warlock, only she's MC'ing into Rogue, not the other way around. ;)

Looking at the stats, looks pretty good. I might even consider Hybriding, though that might leave you a bit MAD. MC'ing may be a better bet, and just pick up some useful Utilities, ect. When looking at Warlock Powers, disregard riders for the most part, because without a decent Int score, they're going to suck.

You may also consider the Fey Pact, and picking up some of the teleports for mobility. Background isn't quite as good, but might make it work. Drow are Fey, and the Queen of Air and Darkness is pretty wicked, or perhaps some other Unseelie Archfey. I've personally always wanted to Lore up an Unseelie Archfey of the Feydark, using concepts like stealth, shadows, and ambush, being the Queen/Lady of Displacer Beasts.
Sure, i'll throw in some help lol. I'm just sitting at work, bored out of my mind, waiting for tonight. Might even help myself work out a few ideas for my Warlock, only she's MC'ing into Rogue, not the other way around. ;)

Sounds cool; I'll work on some ideas that may help you out tonight.

Looking at the stats, looks pretty good. I might even consider Hybriding, though that might leave you a bit MAD. MC'ing may be a better bet, and just pick up some useful Utilities, ect. When looking at Warlock Powers, disregard riders for the most part, because without a decent Int score, they're going to suck.

Eh, not one for hybridization, so I'll stick with the MC.

You may also consider the Fey Pact, and picking up some of the teleports for mobility. Background isn't quite as good, but might make it work. Drow are Fey, and the Queen of Air and Darkness is pretty wicked, or perhaps some other Unseelie Archfey. I've personally always wanted to Lore up an Unseelie Archfey of the Feydark, using concepts like stealth, shadows, and ambush, being the Queen/Lady of Displacer Beasts.

Yeah, I may check out Fey Pact, though we'd have to find a way to do the Unseelie thing...though no promises since I'm partial to Dark Pact...


Check this link for lots of Vhaeraun info:

http://www.angelfire.com/realm2/drowasylum/index.html
Definitely keeping Dark Pact & bringing Vhaeraun back...he's my new favorite deity lol!

Anybody have any tips or anything? Syrishu? Nekros22? LordManshoon?

I actually thought of MC'ing Cleric but I think Dark Pact Warlock will add the same flavor. Haelirin will effectively be an ordained "priest" of Vhaeraun, though instead of channeling his deity's "divine" power source, he focuses it through another outlet- eldritch power ripped through the Shadowfell (Vhaeraun's new home ) House Ak'Ira will be somewhat like House Jaelre & the Bregan D'Aerthe...and it will actually be an ally of the two....I have a great plan in the works...
So, does anyone feel up to the challenge of helping found a new Drow House (much like House Jaelre/Jezzred Chaulssin/the Bregan D'aerthe) devoted to Vhaeraun & also bringing him back into play??
House Ak'Ira stats will be coming this evening hopefully, as well as Vhaeraun's (albeit those being a bit new & improved since he'll actually be 'alive' in my campaign world)
House Ak'Ira
Sigil: Black Half-Mask
City District: Ghetto of Outcasts
Patron: Haelirin Ak'Ira

The Upstart House Ak'Ira is an anathema within the city of Erelhi-Cinlu. It is a male-dominant House that actively opposes the clergy and worship of Lolth. Its members (including females) are all worshipers of Vhaeraun, the Masked Lord. Among the clergy, traitor-priestesses (former priestesses of Lolth) and rogue-clerics are the most numerous. A small sect of the clergy however, are the Dark Pact Warlocks who channel not the deity's divine energy, but eldritch essence ripped through his new realm in the Shadowfell to infuse their profane powers. House Ak'Ira maintains a close alliance with the Riskallus Agency in the Ghetto of Performers, as well as House Jaelre and its members in the Jaezzred Chaulssin in the Night Above. The Bregan D'aerthe in the far-off city of Menzoberranzan is another of its main allies. Just like House Jaelre, it maintains a tenuous alliance with the Auzkovyn Clan of surface Drow. The Drow of House Ak'Ira preach the unification of all Elven races, shunning the small-folk (dwarves, gnomes, etc) and other subterranean races in hopes that one day the Drow will reclaim their place on the surface and lead all of the Elves in a great campaign of domination of the World Above. Within the House, males and females are equal, as Vhaeraun teaches that neither is superior to the other. For the time being, House Ak'Ira works in the shadows, through subtlety, espionage, assassinations, and blackmail. Soon, however, they will reveal themselves to the Drow society as a whole and they will rise from the Underdark into the World Above to claim the place that is rightfully theirs.
House Ak'Ira info is up in my above post...please review it and let me know what you guys think. It needs work so I'm open to advice.


Thanks.
Sounds pretty good, overall. The revealing themselves as a whole to Drow society seems a bit off to me, as does uniting all of the elven races. Vhaeruan's clergy has always acted within the shadows, keeping themselves secret to protect themselves from retribution.

As far as males and females being equal, Vhaeruan's clergy wishes to overthrow the matriarchy, and put themselves in control, which isn't really congruous with females being in positions of any real power, at least within a House devoted to Vhaeruan. The problem I can see stemming from it is the females in positions of power attempting to subvert control over the males as a whole, simply because females have always been in control, and likewise the males wanting power over the females, because the females have control currently.

As far as uniting the elven people, one of the most basic tenets of Drow society is that the "faerie" elves are evil, and drove the Drow underground without provocation, and Lloth was their salvation, and its indoctrinated into all Drow from a very young age. Getting over that basic instinct may prove even more difficult than overcoming the established matriarchy.

Overall, I prefer keeping the Drow as a race of ruthless killers, fully content to leave the sun-blasted surface to the "goodly" races, save for smuggling in exotic goods and raiding. Not "evil" per se, but pragmatic in the extreme, and focused intimately with the self, rather than the society as a whole. Thats just me though.

My real question though is what about Clerics of dark dieties, Shar in particular, and other arcane casters, such as Wizards, Sorcerers, and Warlocks who made a pact with other powers than Vhaeruan, and even Psions? Devotion to Vhaeruan a must, or could a Drow, or even Human or Moon Elf, Warlock who deals with the Queen of Air and Darkness, find a postion in the organization, not out of devotion to Vhaeruan, but simply a path to power in Drow society?
House Ak'Ira
Sigil: Black Half-Mask
City District: Ghetto of Outcasts
Patron: Haelirin Ak'Ira

The Upstart House Ak'Ira is an anathema within the city of Erelhi-Cinlu. It is a male-dominant House that actively opposes the clergy and worship of Lolth.

If this is true, why don't the Lolthites band together and crush the House? Is it because they lack the numbers found in most other drow cities, or for some other reason (Lolth seems disinterested, lack of leadership, etc)? For that matter, how large is House Ak'Ira currently (or soon to be)?

Its members (including females) are all worshipers of Vhaeraun, the Masked Lord. Among the clergy, traitor-priestesses (former priestesses of Lolth) and rogue-clerics are the most numerous. A small sect of the clergy however, are the Dark Pact Warlocks who channel not the deity's divine energy, but eldritch essence ripped through his new realm in the Shadowfell to infuse their profane powers.

Very nice. However, I'm curious: how do the members view non-believers (followers of other deities and no deity in particular? Do they think they can convert these types to Vhaeraun's faith, or do they view all such folk as enemies to be slain in Vhaeraun's name? Is it a mix of both? At least, what does the majority or the higher-ups believe?

House Ak'Ira maintains a close alliance with the Riskallus Agency in the Ghetto of Performers, as well as House Jaelre and its members in the Jaezzred Chaulssin in the Night Above. The Bregan D'aerthe in the far-off city of Menzoberranzan is another of its main allies.

A number of questions. How strong is each bond? If you can, could you rate the strength of each alliance from strongest to weakest? What benefits does House Ak'Ira receive from and provide to its allies? Also, since House Ak'Ira has ties to House Jaelre, does it have any bond with the Auzkovyn Clan?

The Drow of House Ak'Ira preach the unification of all Elven races, shunning the small-folk (dwarves, gnomes, etc) and other subterranean races in hopes that one day the Drow will reclaim their place on the surface and lead all of the Elves in a great campaign of domination of the World Above.

Very intriguing. How, then, would these drow deal with surface elves? Would they attempt diplomacy, convert their surface kin to their cause through force, or simply manipulate and delude whichever surface elves they can? Do agents of the House exist for this purpose? Do all the drow in the House accept this goal?

Within the House, males and females are equal, as Vhaeraun teaches that neither is superior to the other.

Well, technically speaking, canon Vhaeraun does consider males superior to females, if only because of his mother's doctrine. However, I see greater merit in your idea.

For the time being, House Ak'Ira works in the shadows, through subtlety, espionage, assassinations, and blackmail. Soon, however, they will reveal themselves to the Drow society as a whole and they will rise from the Underdark into the World Above to claim the place that is rightfully theirs.

Sounds good. Exactly how far do they wish to spread their power throughout the Underdark? Are we talking a few cities of some import, or is it an ongoing mobilization as far as the agents of the House can travel, which might continue even after the drow vanguard heads to the surface?
My Sig
Reality is but the sum total of all illusions. Proud Hand of Karsus, now and forever Mess with one Hand, mess with 'em all I am Blue/Green
I am Blue/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
"just do what LM the lord of magical might does, and you'll be fine" - sfdragon, 10/12/09
Board Snippets
147048523 wrote:
"I don't like X, they should remove it." "I like X, they should keep it." "They should replace X with Y." "Anybody that likes X is dumb. Y is better." "Why don't they include both X and Y." "Yeah, everybody can be happy then!" "But I don't like X, they should remove it." "X really needs to be replaced with Y." "But they can include both X and Y." "But I don't like X, they need to remove it." "Remove X, I don't like it." Repeat. Obstinance?
56790678 wrote:
Until you've had an in-law tell you your choice of game was stupid, and just Warcraft on paper, and dumbed down for dumber players who can't handle a real RPG, you haven't lived. You haven't lived.
56902498 wrote:
Lady and gentlemen.... I present to you the Edition War without Contrition, the War of the Web, the Mighty Match-up! We're using standard edition war rules. No posts of substance. Do not read the other person's posts with comprehension. Make frequent comparison to video games, MMOs, and CCGs. Use the words "fallacy" and "straw man", incorrectly and often. Passive aggressiveness gets you extra points and asking misleading and inflammatory questions is mandatory. If you're getting tired, just declare victory and leave the thread. Wait for the buzzer... and.... One, two, three, four, I declare Edition War Five, six, seven eight, I use the web to Go!
57062508 wrote:
D&D should not return to the days of blindfolding the DM and players. No tips on encounter power? No mention of expected party roles? No true meaning of level due to different level charts or tiered classes? Please, let's not sacrifice clear, helpful rules guidelines in favour of catering to the delicate sensibilities of the few who have problems with the ascetics of anything other than what they are familiar with.
56760448 wrote:
Just a quick note on the MMORPG as an insult comparison... MMORPGs, raking in money by the dumptruck full. Many options, tons of fans across many audiences, massive resources allocated to development. TTRPGs, dying product. Squeaking out an existence that relys on low cost. Fans fit primarily into a few small demographics. R&D budgets small, often rushed to market and patched after deployment. You're not really making much of an argument when you compare something to a MMORPG and assume people think that means bad. Lets face it, they make the money, have the audience and the budget. We here on this board are fans of TTRPGs but lets not try to pretend none of us play MMORPGs.
90571711 wrote:
Adding options at the system level is good. Adding options at the table level is hard. Removing options at the system level is bad. Removing options at the table level is easy. This is not complicated.
57333888 wrote:
112760109 wrote:
56902838 wrote:
Something like Tactical Shift is more magical than martial healing.
Telling someone to move over a few feet is magical now? :| I weep for this generation.
Given the laziness and morbid obsesity amongst D&Ders, being able to convince someone to get on their feet, do some heavy exercise, and use their words to make them be healthier must seem magical.
158710691 wrote:
D&D definitely improves mental health; Just as long as you stay away from these forums ;)
Sounds pretty good, overall. The revealing themselves as a whole to Drow society seems a bit off to me, as does uniting all of the elven races. Vhaeruan's clergy has always acted within the shadows, keeping themselves secret to protect themselves from retribution.

Check the link I posted above; it's got more info on Vhaeraun which talks about him uniting the elves & such.

As far as males and females being equal, Vhaeruan's clergy wishes to overthrow the matriarchy, and put themselves in control, which isn't really congruous with females being in positions of any real power, at least within a House devoted to Vhaeruan. The problem I can see stemming from it is the females in positions of power attempting to subvert control over the males as a whole, simply because females have always been in control, and likewise the males wanting power over the females, because the females have control currently.

Again, see above link- he preaches about the equality of both genders.

As far as uniting the elven people, one of the most basic tenets of Drow society is that the "faerie" elves are evil, and drove the Drow underground without provocation, and Lloth was their salvation, and its indoctrinated into all Drow from a very young age. Getting over that basic instinct may prove even more difficult than overcoming the established matriarchy.

Keep in mind not all Drow follow the teachings of Lolth and some, if not a good number of them seek to reclaim their surface ties.

Overall, I prefer keeping the Drow as a race of ruthless killers, fully content to leave the sun-blasted surface to the "goodly" races, save for smuggling in exotic goods and raiding. Not "evil" per se, but pragmatic in the extreme, and focused intimately with the self, rather than the society as a whole. Thats just me though.

They were initially like that for me, but now they've set their sights on new horizons.

My real question though is what about Clerics of dark dieties, Shar in particular, and other arcane casters, such as Wizards, Sorcerers, and Warlocks who made a pact with other powers than Vhaeruan, and even Psions? Devotion to Vhaeruan a must, or could a Drow, or even Human or Moon Elf, Warlock who deals with the Queen of Air and Darkness, find a postion in the organization, not out of devotion to Vhaeruan, but simply a path to power in Drow society?

Shar & Mask are allies of Vhaeraun, in fact some believe Mask to be another form of Vhaeraun masquerading in another form to gain other followers; so I don't see why they wouldn't fit into the organization.
If this is true, why don't the Lolthites band together and crush the House? Is it because they lack the numbers found in most other drow cities, or for some other reason (Lolth seems disinterested, lack of leadership, etc)? For that matter, how large is House Ak'Ira currently (or soon to be)?

As I said, they're not openly proclaiming their motives yet, though they are under suspicion by nearby Priestesses...they masquerade as a female-dominant house, with Zaetha assuming the 'matriarch' position; so the Priestesses don't know about the House's real motives yet. House Ak'Ira is rather large, in Erelhi-Cinlu alone it holds a few hundred Drow not to mention nearly three times their number in slaves/mercenaries.


Very nice. However, I'm curious: how do the members view non-believers (followers of other deities and no deity in particular? Do they think they can convert these types to Vhaeraun's faith, or do they view all such folk as enemies to be slain in Vhaeraun's name? Is it a mix of both? At least, what does the majority or the higher-ups believe?

They view those outside their faith as both potential allies and potential threats. So I guess it's a mix of the two.

A number of questions. How strong is each bond? If you can, could you rate the strength of each alliance from strongest to weakest? What benefits does House Ak'Ira receive from and provide to its allies? Also, since House Ak'Ira has ties to House Jaelre, does it have any bond with the Auzkovyn Clan?

House Ak'Ira -> House Jaelre/Jaezzred Chaulssin Bond = Strong
House Ak'Ira -> Bregan D'aerthe = Strong
House Ak'Ira -> Auzkovyn Clan = Tenuous, subject to brief periods of 'conflicted interests'
(Forgot to include them in the earlier description so I did so)

House Ak'Ira deals in secrets, assassins, and other 'black-market' topics. They provide specialized kill-teams, informants, and more to their allies in return for supplies, mercenaries, and any other needed resources.

Very intriguing. How, then, would these drow deal with surface elves? Would they attempt diplomacy, convert their surface kin to their cause through force, or simply manipulate and delude whichever surface elves they can? Do agents of the House exist for this purpose? Do all the drow in the House accept this goal?

Would they attempt diplomacy, convert their surface kin to their cause through force, or simply manipulate and delude whichever surface elves they can? (A mixture of all of this)

Yes, there are Agents, known as The Masked (as some of Vhaeraun's clergy is also called) All Drow in the House accept the goal (though not all support it)

Well, technically speaking, canon Vhaeraun does consider males superior to females, if only because of his mother's doctrine. However, I see greater merit in your idea.

I see your point, and the House is "male-dominant" although it maintains a front (through Hael's lover Zaetha that she is the matron.

Sounds good. Exactly how far do they wish to spread their power throughout the Underdark? Are we talking a few cities of some import, or is it an ongoing mobilization as far as the agents of the House can travel, which might continue even after the drow vanguard heads to the surface?

They have Agents in many major cities, such as Menzo & Erelhi-Cinlu, though their influence will only continue to spread, even after their vanguard reaches the surface.
Yeah, I *really* don't like that link lol. So much of it just seems counter-intuitive to the Vhaeruan I like, and really how he is described in the lore. Again, thats just me.

Seems like you're trying to make the Drow a bit...cuter? Fluffier, as in like kitten fluffy, lol. At least to an extent. The way you describe them, they remind me of Aryvandaaran Sun Elves almost, albeit with a shadowy feel. Not that thats bad, just not something I would personally go for, but its not my game either.

You may want to get a feeling from your players on how they're going to react to it. There are alot of people who are black or white with Drow. Either they're the epitome of evil, or they all have the potential to be Liriel and Drizzit.
Yeah, I *really* don't like that link lol. So much of it just seems counter-intuitive to the Vhaeruan I like, and really how he is described in the lore. Again, thats just me.

Seems like you're trying to make the Drow a bit...cuter? Fluffier, as in like kitten fluffy, lol. At least to an extent. The way you describe them, they remind me of Aryvandaaran Sun Elves almost, albeit with a shadowy feel. Not that thats bad, just not something I would personally go for, but its not my game either.

You may want to get a feeling from your players on how they're going to react to it. There are alot of people who are black or white with Drow. Either they're the epitome of evil, or they all have the potential to be Liriel and Drizzit.

Oh no no no, in NO way am I attempting to make them fluffier. Trust me on that. It's just a different perspective from the standard "servants of the B*tch Queen" point of view. My Drow are as ruthless and bloodthirsty as the rest, though since they are attempting to destroy the matriarchy, they've learned to be more subtle in their tactics, preferring the route of stealth/assassins/etc as opposed to all out warfare. There come a time however, when that point of view will go out the window as well, and open warfare will become their norm. They're just biding time and building resources until then.
Oh no no no, in NO way am I attempting to make them fluffier. Trust me on that. It's just a different perspective from the standard "servants of the B*tch Queen" point of view. My Drow are as ruthless and bloodthirsty as the rest, though since they are attempting to destroy the matriarchy, they've learned to be more subtle in their tactics, preferring the route of stealth/assassins/etc as opposed to all out warfare. There come a time however, when that point of view will go out the window as well, and open warfare will become their norm. They're just biding time and building resources until then.

Don't worry. I picked up on that from the get-go. Your portrayal synchs with Vhaeraun's and his church's style.

Also, not to nit-pick, but "The B___h Queen" is the title of the sea goddess Umberlee (canonically-speaking, of course).
My Sig
Reality is but the sum total of all illusions. Proud Hand of Karsus, now and forever Mess with one Hand, mess with 'em all I am Blue/Green
I am Blue/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
"just do what LM the lord of magical might does, and you'll be fine" - sfdragon, 10/12/09
Board Snippets
147048523 wrote:
"I don't like X, they should remove it." "I like X, they should keep it." "They should replace X with Y." "Anybody that likes X is dumb. Y is better." "Why don't they include both X and Y." "Yeah, everybody can be happy then!" "But I don't like X, they should remove it." "X really needs to be replaced with Y." "But they can include both X and Y." "But I don't like X, they need to remove it." "Remove X, I don't like it." Repeat. Obstinance?
56790678 wrote:
Until you've had an in-law tell you your choice of game was stupid, and just Warcraft on paper, and dumbed down for dumber players who can't handle a real RPG, you haven't lived. You haven't lived.
56902498 wrote:
Lady and gentlemen.... I present to you the Edition War without Contrition, the War of the Web, the Mighty Match-up! We're using standard edition war rules. No posts of substance. Do not read the other person's posts with comprehension. Make frequent comparison to video games, MMOs, and CCGs. Use the words "fallacy" and "straw man", incorrectly and often. Passive aggressiveness gets you extra points and asking misleading and inflammatory questions is mandatory. If you're getting tired, just declare victory and leave the thread. Wait for the buzzer... and.... One, two, three, four, I declare Edition War Five, six, seven eight, I use the web to Go!
57062508 wrote:
D&D should not return to the days of blindfolding the DM and players. No tips on encounter power? No mention of expected party roles? No true meaning of level due to different level charts or tiered classes? Please, let's not sacrifice clear, helpful rules guidelines in favour of catering to the delicate sensibilities of the few who have problems with the ascetics of anything other than what they are familiar with.
56760448 wrote:
Just a quick note on the MMORPG as an insult comparison... MMORPGs, raking in money by the dumptruck full. Many options, tons of fans across many audiences, massive resources allocated to development. TTRPGs, dying product. Squeaking out an existence that relys on low cost. Fans fit primarily into a few small demographics. R&D budgets small, often rushed to market and patched after deployment. You're not really making much of an argument when you compare something to a MMORPG and assume people think that means bad. Lets face it, they make the money, have the audience and the budget. We here on this board are fans of TTRPGs but lets not try to pretend none of us play MMORPGs.
90571711 wrote:
Adding options at the system level is good. Adding options at the table level is hard. Removing options at the system level is bad. Removing options at the table level is easy. This is not complicated.
57333888 wrote:
112760109 wrote:
56902838 wrote:
Something like Tactical Shift is more magical than martial healing.
Telling someone to move over a few feet is magical now? :| I weep for this generation.
Given the laziness and morbid obsesity amongst D&Ders, being able to convince someone to get on their feet, do some heavy exercise, and use their words to make them be healthier must seem magical.
158710691 wrote:
D&D definitely improves mental health; Just as long as you stay away from these forums ;)
I swear I've seen Lolth referenced as the B_tch Queen as well somewhere, along with some other colorfully expletive names :P

Oh well, she's still a B_tch either way, lol!

Anyways, is there anything else you think I should add my friend? Did you review his new Rogue/Darklock stats? Let me know what you think of them. As I mentioned in a previous post, he's sort of a "priest" of Vhaeraun (which are usually cleric/rogues from what I've gathered, but instead of the deity's divine energy he uses Vhaeraun's eldritch power drawn through the Shadowfell. I could definitely use your help in fleshing the rest of things out, as far as the 'reincarnation' of Vhaeraun/The Shadowfell connection/etc, so help is always appreciated!
Oh no no no, in NO way am I attempting to make them fluffier. Trust me on that. It's just a different perspective from the standard "servants of the B*tch Queen" point of view. My Drow are as ruthless and bloodthirsty as the rest, though since they are attempting to destroy the matriarchy, they've learned to be more subtle in their tactics, preferring the route of stealth/assassins/etc as opposed to all out warfare. There come a time however, when that point of view will go out the window as well, and open warfare will become their norm. They're just biding time and building resources until then.

It wasn't the stealth or secrecy that gave me that feeling. Thats one of the things that I actually like in a good villian, or in this case, "evil" race. I think it was the conversion of the surface races that kind of caught me off guard. Not that i'm being critical, just giving you a point of view.

I think more than anything its my perception of Drow mentality. I think one of the best quotes describing it was in the War of the Spider Queen series, where Pharaun says something along the lines of - "I'm begining to think that we live at the bottom of a barrel full of vipers.", describing the other races and cities of the Underdark, and Quenthel replies - "If so, we're the quickest and most venomous viper in the barrel." or something to that effect. To me, Drow see the surface as a source of exotic goods, and easy raiding opportunities, not a place to conquer permanently.

Even my take on Vhaeruan's objectives there isn't outright conquest, merely a place to aquire power, so they can finally overthrow the Matriarchies, and rule the Underdark absolutely. The surface is just a place to aquire power to accomplish this. Again, thats just me.
It wasn't the stealth or secrecy that gave me that feeling. Thats one of the things that I actually like in a good villian, or in this case, "evil" race. I think it was the conversion of the surface races that kind of caught me off guard. Not that i'm being critical, just giving you a point of view.

I think more than anything its my perception of Drow mentality. I think one of the best quotes describing it was in the War of the Spider Queen series, where Pharaun says something along the lines of - "I'm begining to think that we live at the bottom of a barrel full of vipers.", describing the other races and cities of the Underdark, and Quenthel replies - "If so, we're the quickest and most venomous viper in the barrel." or something to that effect. To me, Drow see the surface as a source of exotic goods, and easy raiding opportunities, not a place to conquer permanently.

Even my take on Vhaeruan's objectives there isn't outright conquest, merely a place to aquire power, so they can finally overthrow the Matriarchies, and rule the Underdark absolutely. The surface is just a place to aquire power to accomplish this. Again, thats just me.

That's pretty much how I see them as well, I just thought the whole 'reclaiming their surface ties' thing seemed like a bigger goal as opposed to just conquering the Underdark, you know what I mean, like- why stop there when there's the World Above with a harvest waiting to be reaped?
That's pretty much how I see them as well, I just thought the whole 'reclaiming their surface ties' thing seemed like a bigger goal as opposed to just conquering the Underdark, you know what I mean, like- why stop there when there's the World Above with a harvest waiting to be reaped?

One of the most basic principles in running an empire is giving the general populace, especially the poor, a distraction or common enemy. In contemporary Drow society, its the Faerie elves, who most commoners believe drove them underground out of spite and jealousy, which isn't far from the truth if you consider the history of the Crown Wars, just not the whole truth.

Its basically a propaganda campaign. Make the surface out to be a world of horror, seared by the brilliance of the sun and moon, full of hostile races who have strange and powerful magic, ect. Keeps the general populace from revolting, and overthrowing you, especially in the early days after you're establishing yourselves, and are vulnerable. You're the guardians against the horrors of the surface, and they need you to keep them safe, kind of thing.
One of the most basic principles in running an empire is giving the general populace, especially the poor, a distraction or common enemy. In contemporary Drow society, its the Faerie elves, who most commoners believe drove them underground out of spite and jealousy, which isn't far from the truth if you consider the history of the Crown Wars, just not the whole truth.

Its basically a propaganda campaign. Make the surface out to be a world of horror, seared by the brilliance of the sun and moon, full of hostile races who have strange and powerful magic, ect. Keeps the general populace from revolting, and overthrowing you, especially in the early days after you're establishing yourselves, and are vulnerable. You're the guardians against the horrors of the surface, and they need you to keep them safe, kind of thing.

For me, most of the drow I deal with know the way the surface world is, and they view it with distaste as if it's 'below' their stature, but they realize it's got potential for trade/slaves/etc

:Bump: Just keeping the thread alive so we can see how things turn out. Retooled him into a full rogue, for better options in the long term goal. Stuck between a PP though.  I know Dagger Master is the best as far as damage potential, though Shadow Assassin fits in flavour terms as well. Haelirin has become an 'abolitionist' of sorts, turning on the former Slavers he profitted from in an attempt to 'break the chains' of oppression against races he seeks to profit from in other ways...if he could make a name for himself as a 'saviour,' then perhaps their gratitude could turn into a benefit when it would be at a better advantage for him to establish his House as a prominent figurehead withing the Drow society...