New To 4th ED: Creating A Gnome PC

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Hi all, I was reading over some of the threads and this seemed like the place to come for help. I would like to create a Gnome character who emphasizes their natural affinity for stealth & trickery; one who will be the "face" of the party he'll be joining. I was thinking maybe a Gnome Bard/Cunning Prevaricator/Deadly Trickster. I thought there was another good PP that would add to the "trickster/stealthy" kind of mindset but I can't remember what it is at the moment, I'm not sure if it's even a Bard PP but I'm pretty sure it's a caster class...

Hopefully someone will be able to think of the PP's name because I've got no clue, lol!

Well...as I finish writing this, I'll see if I can find my books and maybe find some other nifty ideas for my character...also, does anyone have a good name that fits the theme? I'm not too savvy for finding creative names for PCs...

I kind of want to base his backstory off of the gnome bard Kellen in the PHB 2, quick-witted with a ready blade & having a troubled past...


Thanks to any and all who help, it will be appreciated greatly.


Cheers,
CW
I thought there was another good PP that would add to the "trickster/stealthy" kind of mindset but I can't remember what it is at the moment, I'm not sure if it's even a Bard PP but I'm pretty sure it's a caster class...

I think you might be refering to the Fey Beguiler. It's a racial PP for gnomes. Pg 21 of PHB2.

Hope this helps
I think you might be refering to the Fey Beguiler. It's a racial PP for gnomes. Pg 21 of PHB2.

Hope this helps

(Sorry couldn't find my books when I first posted this, I'm reviewing the classes now)

Ahhh! Yes, I knew I'd seen it somewhere! Thank you so much!

So, which would be a better route:

Gnome Bard/Fey Beguiler/Deadly Trickster

or

Gnome Bard/Cunning Prevaricator/Deadly Trickster?


The first may be my choice but I'm open to suggestions as to which would prove better for my gnome.
I am pretty much in the same situation as you(very new to D&D making a cunning bard), I am wondering however if you aren't thinking too far ahead. Take one thing at a time, there is a long way to 11th level. I at least plan to enjoy my way there first. I think Cunning Prevaricator might be better suited for my purposes at least than Fey Beguiler, but as I haven't played either I can't tell.

Would be nice if people could tell their experiences and thoughts about how to build such a bard though.
Also, this will be his character portrait since I'm sort of styling him after the Mad Hatter (Come to think of it, I may just use "Mad Hatter" as his bardic 'persona' ie. his 'stage name'):

IMAGE(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b124/Priestess_Riona/gnome-top-hat.jpg)
I am pretty much in the same situation as you(very new to D&D making a cunning bard), I am wondering however if you aren't thinking too far ahead. Take one thing at a time, there is a long way to 11th level. I at least plan to enjoy my way there first. I think Cunning Prevaricator might be better suited for my purposes at least than Fey Beguiler, but as I haven't played either I can't tell.

Would be nice if people could tell their experiences and thoughts about how to build such a bard though.

You know, I completely missed your post until now, my apologies- I read through the thread too quickly and now I've had a chance to check it out. I realize it's thinking rather far into the future, but I'd like to have a feel for my character's....maturing I guess you could say- sort of like mapping out his plans ahead of time. I'd say Cunning Prevaricator is my choice for things as well, since he'll be a "face" for the party (sort of like a false front). Glad to see a fellow Bard in the making.
You could also take the sneak of shadows feat, and use one of the rogue paragon paths
You could also take the sneak of shadows feat, and use one of the rogue paragon paths

What would you suggest for that? Maybe that Infiltrator PP or something?
Also, this will be his character portrait since I'm sort of styling him after the Mad Hatter (Come to think of it, I may just use "Mad Hatter" as his bardic 'persona' ie. his 'stage name'):

IMAGE(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b124/Priestess_Riona/gnome-top-hat.jpg)

I like the hat - - if only because it hides the messed up hair WotC stuck the gnomes with. Have the gnome barbers gone blind? Is there a shortage of mousse, what's the deal?
Also, this will be his character portrait since I'm sort of styling him after the Mad Hatter (Come to think of it, I may just use "Mad Hatter" as his bardic 'persona' ie. his 'stage name'):

IMAGE(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b124/Priestess_Riona/gnome-top-hat.jpg)

I am so going to make an NPC Gnome now for my players to face and call him "Mad Hatter."
You don't have to use the WoTC games. Especially the eyes are weird. This is supposedly my gnome, Edelay:



Oh and while we are talking about creating books, the book suggests that you should take both ranged powers if you are a cunning bard and both melee powers if you are a valourus bard. Isn't it better to take one of each no matter what kind of bard you are?
I am so going to make an NPC Gnome now for my players to face and call him "Mad Hatter."

Well, I'll throw together a build in a bit and see how things go. Maybe we'll all come together on something good. (Actually he's going to be evil; or at best unaligned...but still, you get the point)

Oh and while we are talking about creating books, the book suggests that you should take both ranged powers if you are a cunning bard and both melee powers if you are a valourus bard. Isn't it better to take one of each no matter what kind of bard you are?

I suppose mix/matching powers is a plausible idea- but it really depends on your style of play.
What would you suggest for that? Maybe that Infiltrator PP or something?

Either the infiltrator, or the cat burglar there is some overlap between the two, but I think the master infiltrator might suit your character the best. there is bonus to stealth, as well there is a power that gives you invisibility until your next turn once per encounter.
Either the infiltrator, or the cat burglar there is some overlap between the two, but I think the master infiltrator might suit your character the best. there is bonus to stealth, as well there is a power that gives you invisibility until your next turn once per encounter.

You may be right about that...should I wait and MC later or do it @ 1st level though?

I was thinking either Advantage of Cunning or Jack of All Trades for my 1st level feat, unless there's better options...
Also, on a side note- would MC Shaman be awkward? He could play of his "trickery/Mad Hatter" vibe by pulling his spirit rabbit out of his hat

Actually, that would be cool...
You may be right about that...should I wait and MC later or do it @ 1st level though?

I was thinking either Advantage of Cunning or Jack of All Trades for my 1st level feat, unless there's better options...

RP wise I'd generally like to take multicalss feats at first level. Also consider wether you want to be able to use sneak attack and thievery right away, or if there's something you'd reather have at the begining of the game, you also get a feat at second level, so you don't have to wait very long for your second feat.
Also, on a side note- would MC Shaman be awkward? He could play of his "trickery/Mad Hatter" vibe by pulling his spirit rabbit out of his hat

Actually, that would be cool...

I like the rabbit out of hat idea, but generally I think that primal classes aren't a good match for bards or rogues, what I'd consider very urbane classes. reading the discription for the Shaman, I think you might be able to pull this off though. What's your idea for how your character aquires the spiritual ties necessary for shaminism. personally I don't like the shaman, but I like your concept, and I'd be interested to see how you would Roleplay such an unusual combination.
Hmmm....well, we've got some options:

A.) Rogue MC for sneak attack/thievery

B.) Shaman MC for spirit-rabbit

C.) Advantage of cunning for a nifty slide-trick

D.) Jack of All Trades for some skill bonuses


I'm really considering option B for the simple fact that it's just a fun idea...what would be a good ability score allotment for a Gnome Cunning Bard MC Shaman?
Hmmm....well, we've got some options:

A.) Rogue MC for sneak attack/thievery

B.) Shaman MC for spirit-rabbit

C.) Advantage of cunning for a nifty slide-trick

D.) Jack of All Trades for some skill bonuses


I'm really considering option B for the simple fact that it's just a fun idea...what would be a good ability score allotment for a Gnome Cunning Bard MC Shaman?

Bard's are able to take more than one multiclass feat, in a few levels you could have it all! 0_o
Bard's are able to take more than one multiclass feat, in a few levels you could have it all! 0_o

Really? I wasn't aware of this...


As far as how he gained the spiritual ties, do you know the Rabbit in Alice in Wonderland? How he led her into the Hole? The "Rabbit" spirit in the sense of my character will have been the spirit that bound itself to him to lead him from captivity, I'm using the Fomorian Captivity background tweaked a bit to say that he was sold into slavery with a traveling circus as a magic act and the rabbit was part of the act...does that sound too lame?
Really? I wasn't aware of this...


As far as how he gained the spiritual ties, do you know the Rabbit in Alice in Wonderland? How he led her into the Hole? The "Rabbit" spirit in the sense of my character will have been the spirit that bound itself to him to lead him from captivity, I'm using the Fomorian Captivity background tweaked a bit to say that he was sold into slavery with a traveling circus as a magic act and the rabbit was part of the act...does that sound too lame?

I don't mind the backstory, reading the Spirit Talker feat I think you cover pretty much the bases you get from that feat. Also now that I think about it, I think combining primal and "urbane" classes makes a lot of sense for a fey character, my mind was kind of stuck on humans and halflings, the races I play the most.
So you think it'll work? What's the best stat array for a Gnome Bard/MC Shaman?

I really want to build this little bugger now that we've got some cool ideas going for him!

Where does it say about taking multiple multi-class feats for Bards? That could be interesting for another Bard PC that my cousin wants to play...
Snipped from the character picture thread...we've got a work in progress for the Mad Hatter!

Ok, here we go.
Fixing the hand is tricky, and I'm not sure I could get it right but the bg and cane are fixed now.


Absolutely love it! If at all possible could you shop THIS rabbit:

IMAGE(http://i31.tinypic.com/2cknid.jpg)

into the background somehow? Just slide the gnome to the left a bit, remove that little signature box by his leg, and throw the bunny in behind him to the right, keep the saying too if possible...you would be a god among men, Sock my friend!


He's a Bard/MC Shaman whose spirit "Rabbit" appears as Frank from Donnie Darko...
So you think it'll work? What's the best stat array for a Gnome Bard/MC Shaman?

I really want to build this little bugger now that we've got some cool ideas going for him!

Where does it say about taking multiple multi-class feats for Bards? That could be interesting for another Bard PC that my cousin wants to play...

well I can't really give you a stat array unless I know what method your generating stats with, I'm assuming that your not rolling, or are you? well I think your top stats chould be charisma and dexterity, and of course you'll need wisdom of at least 13. I'd probablly choose spirit fangs and leave it at 13. if your planning to take more shaman powers I'd raise it though, that class seems very wisdom dependant. as for bards being able to multiclass more than once, it's right at the begining of the bard section(page 67 of the PHB2) it's called Multiclass Versatility. so are you not planning to go rogue at all on this character anymore then?
Bard/Shaman all the way.

see my above post.


22 Point Buy for stats.
Bard/Shaman all the way.

see my above post.


22 Point Buy for stats.

I totally missed your other post while I was writing that, so how much shaman do you want? just the initial spirit talker feat, or are you going to take more shaman powers later on, also how melee focused to you want to be, It will be easier to pick stats if I know how to intend to play this character, so the more info you give me the better I can do.
He's not necessarily melee-oriented, preferring to strike from range while his spirit companion pounds on his enemies...that being said, he will wield a blade of some sort- hidden in his cane...and instead of a bow, he'll have his deck of cards- think Gambit from X-Men, except his cards will be bladed, probably just using daggers for the stats unless there's a better option. He's mainly an RP-oriented false face for the party, the trickster/deceiver of the group...hope that helps...also, he'll be as much shaman-focused as he can, though I still want deadly trickster as his Epic Destiny...perhaps I should use a Shaman PP or even PMC Shaman?
He's not necessarily melee-oriented, preferring to strike from range while his spirit companion pounds on his enemies...that being said, he will wield a blade of some sort- hidden in his cane...and instead of a bow, he'll have his deck of cards- think Gambit from X-Men, except his cards will be bladed, probably just using daggers for the stats unless there's a better option. He's mainly an RP-oriented false face for the party, the trickster/deceiver of the group...hope that helps...

Shuriken would be the obious stat choice for bladed cards. that's good, but how much Shaman do you want, just the initial feat, or talking more powers later on?
Shuriken would be the obious stat choice for bladed cards. that's good, but how much Shaman do you want, just the initial feat, or talking more powers later on?

I'm thinking of either taking a Shaman PP or PMCing into Shaman; either way I'm keeping the Deadly Trickster Epic Destiny...what do you think would be the best route?

Also, would I be able to use shurikens as a bard/shaman? I don't have my books right now, my cousin's pouring over them at his house.
Props to Sockmonkey66 for the brilliant job on this pic:

Mk, let's see how you like this.


Here's the Mad Hatter & his Spirit Rabbit!

*drools*
I'm thinking of either taking a Shaman PP or PMCing into Shaman; either way I'm keeping the Deadly Trickster Epic Destiny...what do you think would be the best route?

Also, would I be able to use shurikens as a bard/shaman? I don't have my books right now, my cousin's pouring over them at his house.

Shurikens would require a feat, which makes sense as bladed cards would be a very tricky and specialised weapon, here are the stats I would give you:
10 STR
12 CON
15 DEX
13 INT
13 WIS
17 CHA
and put a point into WIS early in the game. I can't see any of the Shaman paragon paths as suiting your character at all. the fey beguiler (gnome paragon) might be a good one though. Also what did you mean by "PMCing into shaman"? I'm not framilier with that term. and I love the deadly trickster epic destiny, my Wizard/rogue will deffinatly be taking that, if the campaign goes on that long, he survives that long, and he gets that far because I move for school.
Shurikens would require a feat, which makes sense as bladed cards would be a very tricky and specialised weapon, here are the stats I would give you:
10 STR
12 CON
15 DEX
13 INT
13 WIS
17 CHA
and put a point into WIS early in the game. I can't see any of the Shaman paragon paths as suiting your character at all. the fey beguiler (gnome paragon) might be a good one though. Also what did you mean by "PMCing into shaman"? I'm not framilier with that term.

I think I'll go: Gnome Bard/MC Shaman, and take the prof feat for shurikens @ 2nd level.

As for the PP I'll probably go Cunning Prevaricator but you may be right about Fey Beguiler...I'm not sure what works the best...I may even be able to reflavor a shaman PP into something...also, why put the extra point in WIS?

PMCing means Paragon Multiclassing
I think I'll go: Gnome Bard/MC Shaman, and take the prof feat for shurikens @ 2nd level.

As for the PP I'll probably go Cunning Prevaricator but you may be right about Fey Beguiler...I'm not sure what works the best...I may even be able to reflavor a shaman PP into something...also, why put the extra point in WIS?

PMCing means Paragon Multiclassing

I thought you wanted more Shaman abilities, many of which heavily rely on Wisdom, but now from that last post I don't think you do. just take spirit fangs, and leave it at 13. you gain a +1 to all at level 11 anyways, but if you are thinking of taking more shaman abilities, it would probablly be good at have it as least a 14. Also what book is the Cunning prevaricator in? I don't see it in the PHB2 anywhere
I thought you wanted more Shaman abilities, many of which heavily rely on Wisdom, but now from that last post I don't think you do. just take spirit fangs, and leave it at 13. you gain a +1 to all at level 11 anyways, but if you are thinking of taking more shaman abilities, it would probablly be good at have it as least a 14. Also what book is the Cunning prevaricator in? I don't see it in the PHB2 anywhere

If I'm not mistaken, Its in Arcane Power, but I can't check right now.
a few thoughts:
1) if all you want is a rabbit out of your hat, why not take a familiar? 1 feat, done.
2) as you are prograsssing into shaman, what is so shamanistic about him? so far I have seen things closer to a New Orleans Witch Doctor. Also have you pondered a stage routine for your 'magician' in case the DM has a guard stop you for a trick or two or if you as the face need to draw attention to let others sneak by?
Props to Sockmonkey66 for the brilliant job on this pic:



Here's the Mad Hatter & his Spirit Rabbit!

*drools*

I really like your character concept, but I don't love that rabbit, I think a more ordinary looking white rabbit, would be more thematic, more humorous, and just plain take everyone by surprise. such a rabbit could look completly innocent, fairly demonic, or somewhere in between. What do you think of this new rabbit concept? I like the subtility of it compared with roided out black demon rabbit, also a white rabbit seems like it really fits with the mad hatter theme, it could be either anthropomorphic, or completly rabbit like.
I really like your character concept, but I don't love that rabbit, I think a more ordinary looking white rabbit, would be more thematic, more humorous, and just plain take everyone by surprise. such a rabbit could look completly innocent, fairly demonic, or somewhere in between. What do you think of this new rabbit concept? I like the subtility of it compared with roided out black demon rabbit, also a white rabbit seems like it really fits with the mad hatter theme, it could be either anthropomorphic, or completly rabbit like.

Would a cross between the two ideas suit him? Perhaps normally it appears as the simple white rabbit but when things get rough- BAM! Big, bad bunny comes out to lay down some whoopass...

a few thoughts:
1) if all you want is a rabbit out of your hat, why not take a familiar? 1 feat, done.
2) as you are prograsssing into shaman, what is so shamanistic about him? so far I have seen things closer to a New Orleans Witch Doctor. Also have you pondered a stage routine for your 'magician' in case the DM has a guard stop you for a trick or two or if you as the face need to draw attention to let others sneak by?

1.) Don't want a familiar- I want the spirit companion
2.) He's not really shamanistic per se, but rather black-magic evil magician, if that makes any sense??
3.) I've got a little routine worked up just for that matter, that being said- he's going like this: Gnome Bard/MC Shaman/Cunning Prevaricator/Deadly Trickster...maxing his Bluff and other related skills...what do you guys think?
I SHOULD be able to get the build up tonight, sorry- I've had a lot of errands to take care of plus visit my friend in the hospital...he's 17 & has cancer... it sucks...I mean, I'm only 20 but I've seen that stuff hit people a lot older pretty bad, hopefully he'll shake it and it'll all be removed this time...
I SHOULD be able to get the build up tonight, sorry- I've had a lot of errands to take care of plus visit my friend in the hospital...he's 17 & has cancer... it sucks...I mean, I'm only 20 but I've seen that stuff hit people a lot older pretty bad, hopefully he'll shake it and it'll all be removed this time...

Awww, I hope he does ok, a close family friend of mine, I've known her ever since I can remember, has cancer and while she seems to be beating it, so far, it's not over yet, and she's got a surgery comming up in August, I really ope everything is going to be ok with her, and your friend too.
Same here my friend...I'll be praying for both of them.

So I'll attempt to throw together a build soon, hopefully it won't be sub-par.
As I'm sure you can see, I haven't been able to scratch together a build yet, my buddy Dave's cancer flared up again- I swear every time he gets it removed, they find more...damn it!

Anyways, sorry for the delay in posting, but obviously his health condition is more important...I'll do what I can ASAP...Modern_Divo you still out there?