What should I play???

50 posts / 0 new
Last post
hey guys,

I am new to 4e, but a long time gamer (mostly 2e), and my friends are going to try 4e out...here is the group.

DM: Has been playing 4e alot in another group and DMed my fav 2e game of all time...he owns everything including na Insider sub

We are going to run Keep on the Shadowfell with some hombrew alterations to it (Since he is droping it into his own world).


Player 1: Me :D I played 4e on game day last year, and felt it was lacking something...it just didn't feel like D&D to me

Player 2: he has been running LFR, and plays with the DM in another 4e game, so he is our Vet...
[INDENT]he wants to play an Evoker...witch i though was a wizard but was told it is a cleric now...[/INDENT]

Player 3: Is the Dm's new girlfriend and has only played Minds Eye Theater Vampire...
[INDENT]She has a character drawn up already a Gnome Rogue[/INDENT]

Plyaer 4: Is an old time gamer (since he played chain mail in the 70's) but has only had 1 or two shots at 3e and has never played 4 e before
[INDENT]He wants to try out this new Warlord class and he is thinking Dwarf or human[/INDENT]

Player 5: He was in our most recent 3.5 game, and has played a handful of LFR under player 2
[INDENT]he wants to play a half elf Warlock he saud he wants to go fey pact[/INDENT]

So here I am wondering what to play, the PHB says to identify roles, and it looks to me like we have no controler or defender: we have the Evoker and Warlord as Leaders, We have the theif and warlock as strikers, but no defender or controler.

So I was thinking of trying to do a Fighter/Mage, but the DM suggested I look at his Forgotten realms book. He said LFR has a new class called swordmage I might like. He also suggested Bard, but I have never liked bards really. He told me that I could use eaithe r to make a bladsinger type character, but I don't know.

I own the PHB and that is it, but we have access to everything. Any ideas?
The Swordmage would probably be spot-on for you for now. It's from the Forgotten Realms Player's Guide, but just have your DM show you the basics of it, and make your own decision. It's a good Defender, and your Party sounds like they could use one.
Resident Logic Cannon
I agree. Swordmage is probably the best way to get that real "fighter/mage" feeling. Plus, they're a lot of fun to play.
I suggest playing the Swordmage.

Thematically the class is a warrior that uses magic to augment his/her combat prowess.

Mechanically, they are a defender class with some control capabilities. They work primarily off of Intelligence, rather than strength, so Humans, Eladrin, Tieflings, Genasi, Dopplegangers, Githyanki, etc. are all good racial choices.

Also, You may want to take a look at the Warden preview your friend has. They are a sort of "Nature Paladin" who have powers involving shape shifting. Very cool stuff.
ok sounds like Swordmage has alot of fans here, so I will go steal the book from him tonight before work.

Any siggestions on what other books I might need? or maybe what to do, I am use to roleing characters this is my first attempt at point buy
Well, there's nothing wrong with using the pre-arranged stat arrays in the PHB. When my group began using point buy, that was the way that I eventually got comfortable with it. It'll give you a good idea of what kind of stats are possible.
I will jump in here to be yet another cheerleader for swordmage

also since it seams you are not up on PHB2, it looks like you have a controler...the INVOKER is a Divine Controler. It was previewed last month I belive.

Some advice though: BEWARE KOBOLDS...4e is not 3e or 2e trust me...kovold are not jokes anymore.

Also you may want to check out some of DDi if your DM is useing it, there was atleast 1 full article already on swordmages...or better yet check out the character builder, levels 1-3 are free right now, and ut could help alot in deciding on powers.

Before posting, ask yourself WWWS: What Would Wrecan Say?

Swordmages need good Int, Strength and Con. The genasi (elemental humanoid) class from the Forgotten Realms Players Guide goes very well with it, as genasi get a +2 bonus to Strength and Int.

The standard ability array is 16 14 13 12 11 10, but check some of the other arrays to see if one is better suited.
Just as a general plug for Multiclassing, there really is nothing wrong with going Fighter, multiclassing into Mage, and picking up a Paragon Path at the end, either. I am sure we're about to get a whole lot of new options when Arcane Power is released, and I've liked my Multiclass build just fine.

I mean, there is nothing wrong with Swordmage, mind you (I really enjoy the class), but there is something to be said about really being able to throw an Icy Ray or a Fireball, instead of swinging a sword around and making it snow, ya know?
IMAGE(http://images.community.wizards.com/community.wizards.com/user/blitzschnell/0a90721d221e50e5755af156c179fe51.jpg?v=90000)
The reason why many people are (rightfully) suggesting you play a swordmage is because it's the closest thing you have to a defender and a controller at the same time. While it may be somewhat lacking in the controller departement with respect to classes like the wizard, the druid, or the invoker, the high Intelligence of swordmages makes multiclassing for wizard powers a more interesting venue (especially if you pick Wizard of the Spiral Tower as your paragon path and enjoy using your sword for all your spells).

Incidentally, are you sure player 2 is playing an evoker and not an invoker? The invoker is a divine controller class. It specializes in area and debuff effects and receives his power by virtue of faith. This is possibly what this player meant by telling you it is cleric now. If this is the case, then you already have your controller in the group, and I would recommend that you instead complement the party as a fighter (the party rogue, warlord, and warlock will love your stickiness).
Ya. I was going to point out the Invoker not Evoker thing, but someone got it.

But the SwordMage is a good 'magical' starting character. Their powers are pretty easy, but they're unique enough to feel cool.
Yea by far the best fighter/mage class is the Swordmage and if you want to feel more 'wizard' you can multiclass into wizard. Btw in 4e multiclassing isn't remotely as.. invasive as in 3e, your more dabbling into another class and with each feat tier you can dabble a little farther. Plus it lets you use that classes Paragon Paths. An Eladrin Swordmage with Wizard multiclassing and the Wizard of the Spiral Tower PP would let you use a longsword as an implement (the Eladrin get longsword proficiency as a racial trait.) All kinds of possibilities and it would be quite the fun combination to play.
If you can use Githyanki, do so.

A Githyanki Shielding Swordmage can afford to buy 18s in both Int and Con.

This lets you reduce the damage dealt by your mark by a total of 9. at first level.

Take Intelligent Blademaster. TAKE IT. It lets you use your INT Mod for basic attacks, instead of your STR mod. This includes the Damage dealt useful for Opportunity Attacks.

Here's a quick Stat Array I whipped up for a githyanki:

12 STR <- Not as Necessary for Shielding, but some decent attacks add STR mod to Damage)
18 Con <- Your Damage Blocked keys off of this. It keeps the party alive.
12 DEX <- Iniative is the only use this stat has for you in this build.
18 INT <- Your Primary Stat. ALL SM attacks currently key off INT. As does AC.
10
8

Wis and Cha are not that important, but you can switch one of the 12s for the 10 if you want to shore up your Will defense a bit.

As shown you defenses are: 19/14/14/13, and if you put a 12 in WIS/CHA, you'll have 19/14/14/14.

Hope this helps.
Ahh, so THIS is where I can add a sig. Remember: Killing an ancient God inside of a pyramid IS a Special Occasion, and thus, ladies should be dipping into their Special Occasions underwear drawer.
I'm going to recommend a warforged swordmage. Warforged might not fit FR very easily, but who cares?
An Eladrin Swordmage with Wizard multiclassing and the Wizard of the Spiral Tower PP would let you use a longsword as an implement (the Eladrin get longsword proficiency as a racial trait.)

All Swordmages are proficient with the longsword, so being Eladrin is a moot point. also, the WotSP feature specifies an "implement that you specialize in", but the multi-class feat does not give you the implement specialization, which prevents you from using a longsword as a wizard implement.


To the OP:

If you go sword mage, I would suggest going with a race that has a INT bonus, but think you should pick the one you like best for abilities/fluff/whatever..

Races with INT bonuses and full racial writeups are :
Human
Tiefling (CHA, INT)
Eladrin (DEX, INT)
Shadar-Kai (MM) (DEX, INT)
Gensai (FRPG) (STR, INT)
The following races do not have full writeups (yet)
Gnome (MM) (CHA, INT)
Githyanki (MM) (CON, INT)
Doppleganger (MM) (CHA, INT)
Yes, but if you choose a Swordmage, then you'll be stuck with SWORDS.

You know what I've used in every game of D&D before 4E? SWORDS. Not only because they were the most common loot available from tables and modules, but there just was not very many other choices one could make. The Longsword was Duke of Combat for 1st and 2nd, Greatswords (With the exception of Spiked Chains and Muriciual (!) Swords) ruled on high during 3rd.

For the first bloody time in the whole D&D game, you can choose a character that doesn't use a sword, and manage to make it stick. For once, it's not a sucky choice to play someone with, for example, a spear, or an axe.

Now, if you are planning on going with the sword as your primary weapon, then Swordmage is a fine choice. If you wanted a chance to play with anything else, though, then I just wouldn't make that choice.
IMAGE(http://images.community.wizards.com/community.wizards.com/user/blitzschnell/0a90721d221e50e5755af156c179fe51.jpg?v=90000)
Yes, but if you choose a Swordmage, then you'll be stuck with SWORDS.

You know what I've used in every game of D&D before 4E? SWORDS. Not only because they were the most common loot available from tables and modules, but there just was not very many other choices one could make. The Longsword was Duke of Combat for 1st and 2nd, Greatswords (With the exception of Spiked Chains and Muriciual (!) Swords) ruled on high during 3rd.

For the first bloody time in the whole D&D game, you can choose a character that doesn't use a sword, and manage to make it stick. For once, it's not a sucky choice to play someone with, for example, a spear, or an axe.

Now, if you are planning on going with the sword as your primary weapon, then Swordmage is a fine choice. If you wanted a chance to play with anything else, though, then I just wouldn't make that choice.

Acceptable Implements for a Swordmage:

1h
Sickle
Dagger
Kopesh

2h
Scythe
Glave

It has to be a Heavy/Light Blade.

There are a few that aren't swords. Kopesh Qualifies as an Axe as well. (and it's Brutal.)

And a Glave is a Polearm/Heavy Blade.

You're not stuck with Swords.
Ahh, so THIS is where I can add a sig. Remember: Killing an ancient God inside of a pyramid IS a Special Occasion, and thus, ladies should be dipping into their Special Occasions underwear drawer.
If you're missing a controller, there's no real reason not to play an orb wizard.
As a side note, if you take the Intelligent Blademaster feat, a Swordmage can pretty much ignore his Strength score.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
Acceptable Implements for a Swordmage:

1h
Sickle
Dagger
Kopesh

2h
Scythe
Glave

It has to be a Heavy/Light Blade.

There are a few that aren't swords. Kopesh Qualifies as an Axe as well. (and it's Brutal.)

And a Glave is a Polearm/Heavy Blade.

You're not stuck with Swords.

You missed one that I discovered recently: Climbing Claws! :D
Resident Logic Cannon
You missed one that I discovered recently: Climbing Claws! :D

Come on, this was off the top of my head.
Ahh, so THIS is where I can add a sig. Remember: Killing an ancient God inside of a pyramid IS a Special Occasion, and thus, ladies should be dipping into their Special Occasions underwear drawer.
If you're missing a controller, there's no real reason not to play an orb wizard.

Having played in 2 parties with missing roles, Defender in one, then controller in another: defender is more important.

And there is a controller in his party. The Invoker.
Ahh, so THIS is where I can add a sig. Remember: Killing an ancient God inside of a pyramid IS a Special Occasion, and thus, ladies should be dipping into their Special Occasions underwear drawer.
It has to be a Heavy/Light Blade.
.

But that's the point! Why the heck do you want to be stuck with a 'blade'? Blades have been done over and over and over again. Why not Flails and Shields? Why not Greatspears? Why, for the love of imagination, can't you have a Warrior Mage with a Freaking Greatclub ensorced with devotions to Elemental Lords swinging around and bringing flaming meteors from the sky?

Yes, going with Swordmage is 'easy'. You don't have to think that much about the effects, but it's also limiting. It's the only reason I hate the Swordmage (And I remind you, I play one, and am happy with it). I am stuck using one handed bladed weapons, and that just excludes a lot of things I'd like to be doing.
IMAGE(http://images.community.wizards.com/community.wizards.com/user/blitzschnell/0a90721d221e50e5755af156c179fe51.jpg?v=90000)
But that's the point! Why the heck do you want to be stuck with a 'blade'? Blades have been done over and over and over again. Why not Flails and Shields? Why not Greatspears? Why, for the love of imagination, can't you have a Warrior Mage with a Freaking Greatclub ensorced with devotions to Elemental Lords swinging around and bringing flaming meteors from the sky?

Ya know, I am actually expecting a "series" of feats in Arcane power that akin to the rogue weapon feats from Martial power to allow certain races to use a swordmage with more racial appropriate weapons, but then we will have to call the dwarf a hammermage,
You missed one that I discovered recently: Climbing Claws! :D

What really? Dang, I got to try that out. Fighting Game here I come.
What really? Dang, I got to try that out. Fighting Game here I come.

Seriously, that's exactly what these were made for, well, that and making a Wolverine Clone. :D
Resident Logic Cannon
... well, that and making a Wolverine Clone. :D

Nah, just use Spike Gauntlets, better damage and they can be enchanted.
Nah, just use Spike Gauntlets, better damage and they can be enchanted.

Umm, why wouldn't you be able to enchant Climbing Claws? Also, they're a Light Blade. That alone makes them better.
Resident Logic Cannon
well, that and making a Wolverine Clone. :D

And as we all know, the world could use a dozen or more of those...that and Batmen. Load of Batmen. And about a Googleplex of Drittz.
Umm, why wouldn't you be able to enchant Climbing Claws?

They are already magical (lv. 4 hand slot item).
They are already magical (lv. 4 hand slot item).

Couldn't you use Transfer Enchantment to make them Super Special Awesome?
Couldn't you use Transfer Enchantment to make them Super Special Awesome?

Then they would lose the property making them a weapon, and it is a hand slot item, not a weapon for the groups do not match.
Then they would lose the property making them a weapon, and it is a hand slot item, not a weapon for the groups do not match.

Shazbot. Ah well.
I'm surprised that no one even thought to say "Welcome" So I will say it.

HardcoreDandDgirl Welcome to the WotC Forums; You can get a lot of advice here on builds, and pretty much anything you choose. Be aware that some people will give poor advice at times or give you a wrong answer(or maybe just an answer to a misunderstood question) but its really up to you to whether or not you accept the advice and answers :D.
I maintain we need a ranged enchantment for non-ranged weapons. The world needs more Captain America clo..erm..."tributes."
I maintain we need a ranged enchantment for non-ranged weapons. The world needs more Captain America clo..erm..."tributes."

Isn't there already one in AV, that les you throw the weapon as a Daily power??


also, just get Dynamic, Morph the weapon to a heavy thrown, and throw, comes back to hand due to magical, and morph back.
Isn't there already one in AV, that les you throw the weapon as a Daily power??

even better there is a Sheild that as an at will you throw it...


also, just get Dynamic, Morph the weapon to a heavy thrown, and throw, comes back to hand due to magical, and morph back.

those always remind me of she-ra..."Sword to lasso"..."Sword to sheild" cuase heaven forbid the female heman use her damn sword as a sword...

Before posting, ask yourself WWWS: What Would Wrecan Say?

I maintain we need a ranged enchantment for non-ranged weapons. The world needs more Captain America clo..erm..."tributes."

Hell ya man. I'm happy we're getting themed ammo though. Hawkeye here I come.
Off topic aside, Swordmage is a great class. MC into wizard or warlock and your spell casting gets even more fun.

Isn't there already one in AV, that les you throw the weapon as a Daily power??


also, just get Dynamic, Morph the weapon to a heavy thrown, and throw, comes back to hand due to magical, and morph back.

Yes, but it still isn't nearly as fun or viable as it was back in the 3.x days. Heck, beck then they even had the Axe Shield, so you didn't even need to refluff anything. Not that I would ever bring Captain America to a fantasy RPG table. Or Kamahl. Or Kraytos. Or Spock. Ever. EVAR. Nope, not me.
even better there is a Sheild that as an at will you throw it...

Ya, found that while trying to find the item I was remembering.

I have been thinking of Dwarver Throwers, and Stormbolt Weapon.

Did notice that Whelm from Open Grave can be thrown at will though, but that is an artifact.
They are already magical (lv. 4 hand slot item).

After reading it carefully, the Gloves themselves are Enchanted, but the Light Blade part just seems to be a very normal, sub-par Dagger. It doesn't take much of a stretch to assume that you could simply Enchant the Light Blades with something, thereby not actually negating the Properties of the Gloves themselves. I'll have to run that by CS, though, because even though it's not Broken or abusable in any way (face it, they suck), it still feels really cheesy. :S
Resident Logic Cannon