Paladins Anonymous

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Hello, my name is Zousha Omenohu and I'm a paladin junkie. I love paladins. I LOVE PALADINS! Ever since I first played Diablo II I've been in love with the idea of a holy warrior fighting for truth, justice and peace. But lately, I've noticed I might be liking them a bit too much. So far, paladins are the only 4e class I have ever played. When I look at the races, I don't judge them on their merits. I judge them based on whether they'd make a good paladin or not. I threw a fit when the information about devas was leaked, since they looked better equipped to be wizards than paladins. I drool over artifacts and magic items that seem tailor made for paladins. I get more and more irritable waiting for Divine Power to come out. I'm devoted to Tolkien, and his relatively infantile dichotomy of right and wrong.

Frankly, I'm starting to scare myself.

I think I might be too devoted to this class for my own good. A friend of mine is encouraging me to try playing an evil character for once, but I can't muster up the guts to even fill out a character sheet for an evil type. How do I wean myself from the straight and narrow, and play more varied, more morally ambiguous characters? It seems like all my characters these days are the same character in different costumes. And I feel like my paladin obsession is annoying my friends.

I need help.
How do I wean myself from the straight and narrow, and play more varied, more morally ambiguous characters?

Hi, Zousha. There's no need to jump right from paladins to evil characters. That's way overcompensating. Do your friends like playing evil characters a lot?

I'd suggest playing a rogue, they lend themselves to being different characters well. If you insist on sticking to the righteous, than give your character a code, of sorts, just don't make it straight and narrow. Maybe he/she insists on being the manliest fighter around, or the ranger insists on keeping track of each and every kill.
It seems like all my characters these days are the same character in different costumes. And I feel like my paladin obsession is annoying my friends.

Plenty of us still have this problem; most of my archvillains are eerily similar, even after 6 years. Do you usually take very long to create a character brackground, or do you just wing it? Think of a few gritty, self-serving, badass (am I allowed to say that?) characters from movies, books, TV, and video games you like, and model your new character after them. Imagine how much fun it could be to do the wrong thing for a change, you might like it.

Or if that doesn't work, play a cleric, they can be close enough.
Hi, Zousha. I would say a Str based Cleric is about as wean as you get.

Also you should think about being an Avenger, they're similar to Paladins but also very different in a subtle way with with a very cool flavor.
Hi, Zousha. There's no need to jump right from paladins to evil characters. That's way overcompensating. Do your friends like playing evil characters a lot?

No, not always. See, I mainly roleplay on a forum (the one linked to in my sig called The Respite), and we have a wide variety of roleplays there, not just D&D. I have a habit of playing goody-goody types overall that my friends are trying to get me to break simply to get me to try new things.
I'd suggest playing a rogue, they lend themselves to being different characters well. If you insist on sticking to the righteous, than give your character a code, of sorts, just don't make it straight and narrow. Maybe he/she insists on being the manliest fighter around, or the ranger insists on keeping track of each and every kill.

Again, it's not a matter of having a code. It's a matter of being a moral wuss. I don't handle gray morality well, and always try to be a goody-goody, much to the frustration of some of the other players, who seem to prefer moral ambiguity. For example, in a 4e roleplay that we have, I play a Good paladin of Pelor amidst a party consisting of:
  • An Unaligned rogue/warlock who is an ordained priestess of the Raven Queen and seems to have some deep-seated emotional issues involving her dark past and her inability to do anything but kill. She's the party leader.

  • An Unaligned rogue who grew up on the mean streets, surviving everything from gang violence to **** and murder. She thinks her dagger is her only friend and sometimes mutters things like "Blood is beautiful." And she's also my character's half-sister.

  • An Unaligned warforged fighter who doesn't really have much of a concern for civilian causalties. He charged a bunch of goblins holding a girl hostage, when my paladin wanted to bargain with them for the girl's release. They killed the girl in response and my paladin was furious. The warforged didn't seem to care.

  • An Unaligned wizard who seems to have no patience for foolishness or idiocy. For instance, she considered my paladin's anger at the girl's death to be stupid because it wasn't something he could stop, and yet he was blaming himself for it. And she also came at him with her flail once when he mentioned he'd forgotten to bring trail rations. She'd been having a bad day before then though, and she'd only just met the paladin.

  • Recently, we've met an Unaligned doppleganger (who poses as a human female) cleric of the Raven Queen who was the former lover of the rogue/warlock. Deciet is "her" middle name.

I'm kind of the odd-man-out.
Plenty of us still have this problem; most of my archvillains are eerily similar, even after 6 years. Do you usually take very long to create a character brackground, or do you just wing it? Think of a few gritty, self-serving, badass (am I allowed to say that?) characters from movies, books, TV, and video games you like, and model your new character after them. Imagine how much fun it could be to do the wrong thing for a change, you might like it.

I do generally just wing it. Most of my paladins tend to be orphans raised by some secluded church somewhere.

And as for some gritty characters to emulate, I don't know if I've watched enough of those kinds of things to have one. As I said, I tend to stick more towards Tolkienesque morality.
Or if that doesn't work, play a cleric, they can be close enough.

I think my fellow players would probably roll their eyes. They seem tired of me playing religious types too.
Get the PHB2 in March, and play an Avenger.

... I'm not sure if that helps. Avengers just look awesome to me.

But... They're Paladin-ish... I guess...
In my party there is a lawful good paladin who does not alway do the right thing, he gets hung up on honor alot and can be hyperjudgmental sometimes.

My character is a good Warlord who's sometimes a little too protective of his allies, becuase of some friends of his that died.

I once played a good rogue who was trying to make up for being a bandit in his youth

If your most comfortable at being good then stick to it, but non-grey morality can be interesting when combined with other grey elements:

throw in some overcoming the sins of the father,
or make a githyanki wizard who sees the folly of his race's ways,
or a once sinner now trying to get to heaven to meet up with a lost love,
or make a Warlock who fights evil with evil (combine this with the last one),
or is a race that has to hold back their primal nature
In 4rth pallys can be of any alignment, so i would think that its not so much as the class is the problem, but the alignemt that you force on them. (i remember previous threads about you and playing them all as lawful good and hateing that all dieties get pallys now, twas awhile ago but it stuck in my mind. im not trying to be mean or put words in your mouth, just saying what you had said).

If your looking for something that might fit your group yet steps away from being a defender and holy powers, i would say either an archery ranger or a warlock. Your group seems to have alot of physical characters so another ranged character might be of benifit.

As a ranger you could be an assasin who snipes from the rooftops and only cares about money. You could be a former archer in some military who was expelled for war crimes. You could just be a guy of the streets who grew up mastering a sling for protection. so on and so forth.

The warlock might be a problem if your freinds are getting tired of you and holy guys. Simply becuse you can play up your patron as a god or godling as such. Im a servent to the devils/elder gods/feywild/pelor... it all sounds the same.

I would argue to make an unaligned character or perhaps slightly evil. your group tends to favor those atleast.

OR you could be a pally of a chaotic evil diety like the orc god gruumesh or whatever. that alone should shake things up. you maim, kill, and pillage becuse its not only what you like to do but becuse your god demands it! you just have to play it as a controlable evil guy (8 int) so your party dosent expell you.

Hope this helps.
Play a betrayed paladin.

Holy and noble, dedicated to his god Oz, he would strong arm, or even kill people who denied Oz. Only to find out that Oz was a evil wizard, and was secretly taking his most devoted and using them for necromancy experiments, when he tried to tell the rest of his town they ran him out, burning his house, slaying the rest of his family, and doing everything to him that he did to others.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Sounds to me like an issue of you preferring the lawful good alignment. I still see this as the norm for Paladins, though it has changed.

I would suggest that if you want to stick with the tolkienesque concepts of good and evil, then create a good character that is NOT lawful. Think Robinhood, does what he believes to be morally right, but not necessarily legally right. Defending the girl could be the ranger that takes the shot to kill the goblin holding the girl. You still want to save her because it's morally right, but are willing to kill him to do it. While the rest of the party fights the whole group, you do whatever it takes to save her. This could include moving to mark the guy holding her, pushing him or knocking him prone to free her. Healing her in the middle of the fight, using a daily power on her instead of party members.

They might start to care more about your point of view if it starts to effect how they fight too. If you always use dailies on the victims and damsels in distress, then they might try to help too, so you'll use your dailies on the party instead.

You could do this with any class really, but the key is to shift focus a little, not a lot. It sounds like you would never have fun with an evil character, but maybe a Warrior with a moral code, that is not lawful. To use the od alignment system as an example, if you're always Lawful Good, then try Neutral Good, still good, but neutral or uncaring about the local laws, especially if they violate your own moral code.

Remember, even Strider lived outside the law for his own purposes, but still believed in right and wrong.
I don't see a problem. Keep playing paladins and crusaders for good, don't let your friends lack of morals and poor character move you from your righteous path!
Hello, my name is Zousha Omenohu and I'm a paladin junkie. I love paladins. I LOVE PALADINS! Ever since I first played Diablo II I've been in love with the idea of a holy warrior fighting for truth, justice and peace. But lately, I've noticed I might be liking them a bit too much. So far, paladins are the only 4e class I have ever played. When I look at the races, I don't judge them on their merits. I judge them based on whether they'd make a good paladin or not. I threw a fit when the information about devas was leaked, since they looked better equipped to be wizards than paladins. I drool over artifacts and magic items that seem tailor made for paladins. I get more and more irritable waiting for Divine Power to come out. I'm devoted to Tolkien, and his relatively infantile dichotomy of right and wrong.

Frankly, I'm starting to scare myself.

I think I might be too devoted to this class for my own good. A friend of mine is encouraging me to try playing an evil character for once, but I can't muster up the guts to even fill out a character sheet for an evil type. How do I wean myself from the straight and narrow, and play more varied, more morally ambiguous characters? It seems like all my characters these days are the same character in different costumes. And I feel like my paladin obsession is annoying my friends.

I need help.

No, not always. See, I mainly roleplay on a forum (the one linked to in my sig called The Respite), and we have a wide variety of roleplays there, not just D&D. I have a habit of playing goody-goody types overall that my friends are trying to get me to break simply to get me to try new things.

Again, it's not a matter of having a code. It's a matter of being a moral wuss. I don't handle gray morality well, and always try to be a goody-goody, much to the frustration of some of the other players, who seem to prefer moral ambiguity. For example, in a 4e roleplay that we have, I play a Good paladin of Pelor amidst a party consisting of:
  • An Unaligned rogue/warlock who is an ordained priestess of the Raven Queen and seems to have some deep-seated emotional issues involving her dark past and her inability to do anything but kill. She's the party leader.

  • An Unaligned rogue who grew up on the mean streets, surviving everything from gang violence to **** and murder. She thinks her dagger is her only friend and sometimes mutters things like "Blood is beautiful." And she's also my character's half-sister.

  • An Unaligned warforged fighter who doesn't really have much of a concern for civilian causalties. He charged a bunch of goblins holding a girl hostage, when my paladin wanted to bargain with them for the girl's release. They killed the girl in response and my paladin was furious. The warforged didn't seem to care.

  • An Unaligned wizard who seems to have no patience for foolishness or idiocy. For instance, she considered my paladin's anger at the girl's death to be stupid because it wasn't something he could stop, and yet he was blaming himself for it. And she also came at him with her flail once when he mentioned he'd forgotten to bring trail rations. She'd been having a bad day before then though, and she'd only just met the paladin.

  • Recently, we've met an Unaligned doppleganger (who poses as a human female) cleric of the Raven Queen who was the former lover of the rogue/warlock. Deciet is "her" middle name.

I'm kind of the odd-man-out.

I do generally just wing it. Most of my paladins tend to be orphans raised by some secluded church somewhere.

And as for some gritty characters to emulate, I don't know if I've watched enough of those kinds of things to have one. As I said, I tend to stick more towards Tolkienesque morality.

I think my fellow players would probably roll their eyes. They seem tired of me playing religious types too.

First, I must get this off my chest: [dalek]DO NOT BLAS-PHEME! DO NOT BLAS-PHEME![/dalek] One thing Tolkien got right is that sometimes, it's Right versus Wrong. No middle ground.

Now, on to your main problem, here's my suggestion: Play a rogue. Or a ranger. Or a warlock. And play them as good.

Explain how the scruffy street-rat has a streak of honor beneath the dirt. Or how the weathered wanderer has a moral code even in the wild. Or how that guy who made a pact with a demon/eldritch abomination/Archfey is devoted to using his powers for good. If you have problems coming up with an idea, take a break from D&D and watch movies/read books/go refresh your mind. Michael Carpenter is a fun character to emulate, but so are The Doctor, an eccentric wanderer with a unbreaking moral code; Harry Dresden, the smartass hero who doesn't give a damn about the law if lives are in peril; Hector, the boisterous and hot-headed friend; Sain, the womanizing perv with a pure heart; Guy, the shy and honor-bound swordsman; Aren, the country bumpkin with raw magical talent; Silk, the magnificent scoundrel and liar who serves the right cause; Gilgamesh, the badass genius doing the right thing for love; Indiana Jones, the unassuming teacher who has a core of steel...

Do I need to keep going? :D

I've played one evil character in an online RP. One. Ever. And I've found that good isn't a restricting straitjacket - it can create complex RP situations. Good characters have to worry about their actions, and do their best to make things right at the end of the adventure. If playing good guys is what you love, then play on the right side. Just don't fall into the trap of playing the same character over and over again - make every character unique. And if all else fails, make a comedic hero - a good guy who's just too funny to forget.

Also, your party is made of a bunch of flaming, idiotic berks. Just sayin'.

In conclusion:
  • Play a good guy - just of a different class and temperment.
  • Go get some inspiration from good fiction and video games. There are a million good and awesome characters out there.
  • Good is a lot more interesting than evil, because it's extremely flexible and yet rigid at the same time.
  • Your "fellow players" are being twits. Don't listen to them.
Well, they've been accepting so far. The wizard only gets upset when I act stupid, and that's happened less and less. The only one who's outright hostile is my character's half-sister. The warforged seems to have set himself up as the group's psychiatrist in a sense, and he always takes watch, since he doesn't sleep.

The group's leader is at least nice. She treats me with respect, though she does consider my character naive. The best way to describe her I suppose would be well-meaning, but incredibly sad. While she does the right thing, and is a good leader, she doesn't seem to have any emotion except sadness. She doesn't get angry, she never smiles. She's just always so sad. And to be honest, I haven't gotten enough of a feel for how her doppleganger ex-lover behaves to know whether she's a jerk or not. She is quick to heal us when we need it.
First, I must get this off my chest: [dalek]DO NOT BLAS-PHEME! DO NOT BLAS-PHEME![/dalek] One thing Tolkien got right is that sometimes, it's Right versus Wrong. No middle ground.

Now, on to your main problem, here's my suggestion: Play a rogue. Or a ranger. Or a warlock. And play them as good.

Explain how the scruffy street-rat has a streak of honor beneath the dirt. Or how the weathered wanderer has a moral code even in the wild. Or how that guy who made a pact with a demon/eldritch abomination/Archfey is devoted to using his powers for good. If you have problems coming up with an idea, take a break from D&D and watch movies/read books/go refresh your mind. Michael Carpenter is a fun character to emulate, but so are The Doctor, an eccentric wanderer with a unbreaking moral code; Harry Dresden, the smartass hero who doesn't give a damn about the law if lives are in peril; Hector, the boisterous and hot-headed friend; Sain, the womanizing perv with a pure heart; Guy, the shy and honor-bound swordsman; Aren, the country bumpkin with raw magical talent; Silk, the magnificent scoundrel and liar who serves the right cause; Gilgamesh, the badass genius doing the right thing for love; Indiana Jones, the unassuming teacher who has a core of steel...

Do I need to keep going? :D

I've played one evil character in an online RP. One. Ever. And I've found that good isn't a restricting straitjacket - it can create complex RP situations. Good characters have to worry about their actions, and do their best to make things right at the end of the adventure. If playing good guys is what you love, then play on the right side. Just don't fall into the trap of playing the same character over and over again - make every character unique. And if all else fails, make a comedic hero - a good guy who's just too funny to forget.

Also, your party is made of a bunch of flaming, idiotic berks. Just sayin'.

In conclusion:
  • Play a good guy - just of a different class and temperment.
  • Go get some inspiration from good fiction and video games. There are a million good and awesome characters out there.
  • Good is a lot more interesting than evil, because it's extremely flexible and yet rigid at the same time.
  • Your "fellow players" are being twits. Don't listen to them.

  • I suppose I can do that, though my fellow player might see me being Good as just being inflexible and not looking at other options.

  • If I have enough free time I will. I have seen all the Indiana Jones movies (yes, even Kingdom of the Crystal Skull), so that's at least a start.

  • I won't argue with you there, but one thing my fellow players want me to do is expand my roleplaying horizons, instead of just playing characters that are essentially my personality in different costumes.

  • They've never steered me wrong so far. Maybe I'm misrepresenting them. The warforged's player runs eight of the other RPs on the forum, so he's pretty well-versed in acting very different roles. In one of them, HE'S a paladin. A warforged paladin who helped save a woman from herself after her traumatic **** and then became human for her. They're currently shopping for wedding rings, and she's carrying their first children.
Make a character based off of Kratos from God of War. It's tons of fun, trust me. (If you still wanna be a pally, just play an evil or unaligned one)

Off Topic: A warforged turned into a human and had kids with a woman? Wow. How did THAT happen?

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/6.jpg)

  • I suppose I can do that, though my fellow player might see me being Good as just being inflexible and not looking at other options.

  • If I have enough free time I will. I have seen all the Indiana Jones movies (yes, even Kingdom of the Crystal Skull), so that's at least a start.

  • I won't argue with you there, but one thing my fellow players want me to do is expand my roleplaying horizons, instead of just playing characters that are essentially my personality in different costumes.

  • They've never steered me wrong so far. Maybe I'm misrepresenting them. The warforged's player runs eight of the other RPs on the forum, so he's pretty well-versed in acting very different roles. In one of them, HE'S a paladin. A warforged paladin who helped save a woman from herself after her traumatic **** and then became human for her. They're currently shopping for wedding rings, and she's carrying their first children.

  • Well, in the end it's your character. If you've just been playing too many Lawful Good paladins, try a different type of good - or even a different type of Lawful Good. Vimes and Carrot are both LG - and they're completely different in their moral outlook and actions. If an evil character just isn't your thing, it just isn't your thing.
  • Allow me to suggest the Fire Emblem games as another fresh source of inspiration - they have loads and loads of lovable characters, and are out for multiple platforms. I'd also recommend the Dresden Files - if you're a mature reader - and any fantasy series you can get yer paws on. Reading is good for ya, mate!
  • ...Play a girl. :P In all seriousness, it's important to expand one's horizons in ways one is comfortable with. I play all kinds of characters, so that I don't wear out my signature class, the Rogue. Really, just try picturing a character in your head and go from there - they don't have to share all of your personality, just parts of it.
  • Hmmm. Very well, I retract my statement about the players. Their characters, on the other hand...
Make a character based off of Kratos from God of War. It's tons of fun, trust me. (If you still wanna be a pally, just play an evil or unaligned one)

Off Topic: A warforged turned into a human and had kids with a woman? Wow. How did THAT happen?

I've never played God of War, but from what I've seen, Kratos'd likely be a two-weapon fighting ranger or a tempest fighter.

And as for how the warforged became a human, it's a long and complicated story.

You see, the warforged (Gauntlet by name) had arrived at the hotel where our RP is centered, the Traveller's Respite, and was basically hired as a guard. A while later, a mysterious woman named Eloise arrived at the Respite seeking the murderers of her parents. She'd apparently come from an alternate Material Plane. She got information that a man by the name of Comnte would provide her with the information, but when she arrived, she said she'd give anything to know who killed her parents. Comnte gave her the information, but only after raping her as payment. Eloise was brought back to the Respite by Comnte's henchmen, and after she regained conciousness, she went through a very bad phase. She was suicidal, and desperately afraid of men. Gauntlet was the only one she trusted because he was not flesh and therefore couldn't hurt her.

She eventually grew attached to him, and he helped her recover from her trauma. Later, Gauntlet led an expedition to Comnte's lair and struck a death-blow to the monster (Comnte had a number of odd mutations that he subjected on himself and his entourage, particularly his consort, Her, who was obsessed with sex and had a number of tentacles). Thanks to his helping Eloise, Gauntlet began to develop more human emotions, including love. Eloise and Gauntlet agreed to stay together, and Gauntlet decided to become human for her. They managed to attract the attention of a powerful spellcaster named Alyss, who used a unique spell to transform Gauntlet into a human. Almost immediately after, they made love, which was a big step towards recovery for Eloise, who after her trauma had been terrified of it.

Gauntlet continued to help Eloise through her psychological trauma, and eventually she became subject to a bizzare spell that prematurely aged both of them by several months. As a result, Gauntlet now sports a beard, and Eloise's pregnancy has been accellerated. At the moment, Eloise has bought a new wedding dress (she'd originally bought one before she was hit by the spell, but now that one obviously doesn't fit her), and they're going to have their wedding rings made.
Ah. Cool story. And, when I say make a character based off of Kratos, I mean the personality and attitude. Class doesn't really matter. It's tons of fun.

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/6.jpg)

I've frankly always wondered what it'd be like to play a Stupid Evil character in the vein of Dryzen, from Makai Kingdom:

"SLASH HIS THROAT! EAT HIS EYES! STEAL HIS SHOES!!!"

Well, to play Kratos, he does WHAT he wants to WHO he wants, WHEN he wants. He's a selfish bastard, and will go to any lengths to get revenge. Bloody, painful revenge. He doesn't care who or what he has to kill, he doesn't care what happens to him, or even the rest of the world. That is Kratos.

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/6.jpg)


Well, to play Kratos, he does WHAT he wants to WHO he wants, WHEN he wants. He's a selfish bastard, and will go to any lengths to get revenge. Bloody, painful revenge. He doesn't care who or what he has to kill, he doesn't care what happens to him, or even the rest of the world. That is Kratos.

Just what you'd expect from a guy whose name literally means "power,"
Show
Ie. demos(people) + kratos(power) = demokrateia, the power in the hands of the people, democracy.
I think Raz Fox's idea of playing a "Chaotic Good" character, who is generally good but follows his/her own code, not the laws, would indeed work wonders for you if you don't want to make the leap to uncaring or evil. Let us know what you decide on, and how it turns out.
I'm playing my Good paladin until I retire him, but after that, I think I'm going to play an Unaligned, hedonistic warlock. Or maybe a beastmaster ranger/warlord who takes the Borderlands Marshall paragon path? Or a Robin Hood style rogue? Maybe a Bilbo Baggins clone?
Well, I'm all for variety. I'm only playing in one 4e game right now (DMing another), but here are some of the 3.5e characters I've played:

Astar Stonehold -- A dwarf fighter who wants to be a paladin but never received the call. His clan was destroyed by an evil necromancer, when he was just old enough to lead the group of survivors (children, elderly, mothers) to safety. The survivors found sanctuary at a Temple of Heironeous, and the paladins' honor really impressed the young Astar. Honorable, honest to a fault (almost got his party killed because he couldn't lie to a group of kobolds), and self-sacrificing, he's probably my favorite.

Roland Black -- A human rogue--sorta. He infiltrated a thieves' guild to help his cousin, a member of the city guard, expose them. Unfortunately, they underestimated how well the guild had paid off the higher ups in the guard, and the cousin was murdered and Roland framed for it. He escaped, and later joined up with an adventuring group investigating the Temple of Elemental Evil. He's outspoken, with a glib tongue and only a passing acquaitance with the truth. He's also the clever one, always coming up with a plan to con the enemy.

Bajnik Irongate -- A dwarf ranger. Something of an outsider among his people, as he prefers exploring the deep caverns over drinking songs in the hall. I didn't get very far with him, as the game died early, but I made him mainly because I wanted someone lower key than Roland and Astar.

Talyon Ajunar -- A human wizard, with a sky high intelligence and a pit-deep wisdom. He's the ultimate absent-minded professor, a diviner with a little bit of knowledge about everything (a few points in every knowledge skill). He's always a bit distracted, but fortunately has Marta--his white owl familiar--to rely on. She's not as smart, but she's much wiser, and she's the one who reminds him that Dimension Door is a much more useful spell than Arcane Eye, and that he really should watch out for that charging orc.

Duribela Genjak -- A dwarf shapeshifter druid, and a young member of Astar's clan who got lost during the flight from Stonehold. Due to a desperate prayer answered by Obad-Hai, she spent several years living as a wolf, and even since returning to dwarf form doesn't always act very dwarven. So she occasionally howls, or growls, or whimpers rather than speaks, and has a tendency to sleep curled up on the floor in wolf form. She's pretty quiet, and will follow whoever she decides is the alpha of the group (generally the most dominant male) without question.

I've converted two of them to 4e:
Astar Stonehold -- A little older and a little wiser, Astar is now the paladin he always wanted to be. Recently, he achieved revenge against the necromancer who destroyed his clan, and is a little lost about what to do next.

Duribela Genjak -- Duribela died in her last adventure, but someone or something brought her back and dropped her into the middle of another adventuring group. Technically a DMPC in the game I'm running, one of the reasons I'm using her is that she's low key enough that it's easy for her to fade into the background unless she's needed. Also the group needed a controller and someone who could do perception checks, so druid was the perfect class.

I've been looking for an opportunity to play Roland. It's a bit of a challenge, though, as he was a Dex/Int/Cha rogue (admittedly, an impossibly high point buy was in effect for that game), and that doesn't work so well in 4e. I've built a version of him, though, with 18 Dex, 14 Cha, and 13 Int that I think will work. It's a much lower Int than before, but it's high enough to qualify for feats like Jack of All Trades and Linguist, which I think fit him well.

Through all that, I think Astar, my dwarf paladin-wannabe, is my favorite. He has a clear personality and motivation, and he's not afraid to butt heads to do what's right. That said, he also believes in taking care of the party, even if they are a bunch of amoral rogues.

That doesn't mean I don't love my other characters, though. Roland's easily my second favorite, and he's very different from Astar. He's the lovable rogue archetype, and although most emphatically not a thief despite his obvious skill with it (I don't think he was ever able to convince the rest of the party that he wasn't--only the DM knew his background--but he blew up whenever one of them called him a cutpurse), he's a heck of a lot less compassionate and self-sacrificing, having seen where that got his cousin.

So, yes, try a little variety. It's fun.
So, yes, try a little variety. It's fun.

So is playing an archetype you enjoy. If you enjoy playing paladin-types, play them.
One thing I've learned is that Paladins are not always your Prince Charming, Knight In Shining Armor, types. In fact, Paladins, as the most zealous followers of their Gods, have a really great opportunity available to them. Paladins, unlike clerics, do not have to be kind, forgiving, people. They are wrathful, righteous, zealous, and xenophobic to the point where they will destroy anything and everything that they believe is an affront to their God.

Now, rarely will this mean that you do anything really evil, but it certainly puts you in a moral grey area.
So is playing an archetype you enjoy. If you enjoy playing paladin-types, play them.

Well, the OP was asking about playing different types, so that's what I was showing, a smattering of different types...

I don't know how useful it was. To some degree I was just enjoying talking about my characters, so I apologize if it's a bit of a thread derailment.
No, not at all. For one thing, it shows a great deal of variety within a single theme (I noticed you seem to like playing dwarves, and those dwarves were all different and cool!)
Best type of paladin, hands down, is the overzealous crusader. Why play the beneficent embodiment of your lawful good god's will when you can scream at goblins to accept the unending love and forgiveness of god while smashing their heads open with a mace.
It's great that your trying to expand your RP horizons- I personally think everyone should at the very least try to have a few characters of varying personalities and alignments under their belts-it helps develop one's roleplay skills and it might grant you insight into the less than-sterling aspects of any given character's personality.

One thing I think you should perhaps consider is playing someone who ultimately wishes to do good, but that is willing to break the rules (and perhaps some skulls) in order to bring that good about. The blood spike Goblin tribe is threatening the border marches? Let them ambush a dummy caravan that has supplies coated in a virulent disease, then strike at night at their camp and leave the heads of those you slay on spikes as a warning to those who might be tempted to attack the bastions of what your character sees as good.

It might also be interesting to play someone who's good but who is in service to a flawed ideal-for example a patriot who's noble and honest and signed up to fight in his nation's military to fight in a war. After all, if his superior's say that the enemy is consorting with fiends or butchering children then it must be true, right? He came back from that war far more experienced, a little wiser, but ultimately still convinced that his country is worth fighting for and ultimately good (even if it's not).

Another possibility that I particularly like is the idea of playing an Unaligned individual who worships an evil god because he or she is interested in the non-evil aspects of such a god. Such as a Rogue who believes that only the most worthy should know the truth who reveres Vecna, or a Wizard who's life in the slums of a large city made Bane's teachings of order at any cost attractive.

One thing I find helpful also is, when creating a character's personality and backstory, look over it and ask yourself "Have I seen this before?". If you have, focus on the differences between this character and any other character of yours and how those differences came about.
No, not at all. For one thing, it shows a great deal of variety within a single theme (I noticed you seem to like playing dwarves, and those dwarves were all different and cool!)

Yeah, I do have a tendency to play dwarves (and humans). Part of it is that I like playing against type, and dwarves have such a well-established type that it's easy to play against.

Even Astar, who fits the normal race/class combination, isn't a typical dwarf fighter. He's thoughtful, well-spoken, and prefers to talk things out rather than fight if he can. He wears a holy symbol with the symbol of Moradin on one side and of Heironeous on the other, and tends to play with it when faced with a decision where his dwarven culture and the code of honor the paladins taught him disagree. I eventually converted him into a knight from the PHB2, as I thought it made a pretty good compromise between fighter and paladin.
Best type of paladin, hands down, is the overzealous crusader. Why play the beneficent embodiment of your lawful good god's will when you can scream at goblins to accept the unending love and forgiveness of god while smashing their heads open with a mace.

This is why I can't wait for the Avenger class. :D

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/6.jpg)

Wait wha? I thought the Avenger was going to be a Primal Defender.
no avengers are divine strikers .. pretty much dervish types
primal defenders are wardens
Hey Zousha. On this board there's a thing about a Drow Paladin. Play him! He's badass, (+1) evil (so you can break away from playing good guys) and a pally! (so it's still slightly familiar to you)

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/6.jpg)

So I've seen, but right now I'm already playing a Drow paladin (Lawful Good paladin of Amaunator) in LFR.

I'm playing something a bit different in an online PbP though. I'm still working out the sheet, and it's 3.5, but I think it's gonna be cool. An elf duskblade with horribly burned skin and a thing for freezing innocents to death.
So I've seen, but right now I'm already playing a Drow paladin (Lawful Good paladin of Amaunator) in LFR.

I'm playing something a bit different in an online PbP though. I'm still working out the sheet, and it's 3.5, but I think it's gonna be cool. An elf duskblade with horribly burned skin and a thing for freezing innocents to death.

That sounds like a good idea. I find PbP's the best place to try out different types of characters. You tend to put a lot more into roleplaying in PbP games, so it helps you get a good handle on their personalities. Also, since you have more time to think about how your character's behaving, you have time to ask yourself "What would my character do?" rather than just reacting instinctively. Good luck.