Feylock: Who is giving them power?

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Hey there,

Just wondering, who or what exactly is giving the Feylock their power? Infernals have devils, Starlocks have stars/elder beings...

I was talking this over with someone and well, I guess our main issue with the Fey pact is that one could potentially play something that could be a power giver (eladrin). Or can eladrin not make pacts with lesser beings? Is it unicorns? Gnomes? Green Dragons? What type of fey creature can/would make a pact with potential warlock? What types of creatures have those of you playing feylocks made deals with?

And when you did, did it feel like eating a bowl of Lucky Charms?
i know this is my interpritation of the feywild and the fey pact, its more based off of the older fey lores that the things that go bump in the night are of farie where not all faries are cute little things with wings. these things are elemtanl gods or other such beigns to feral/powerfull/monsterous for most mortals to be able to handle seeing or being near them. i take it being they can be good or evil ( seelie or unseelie ) but thats my take on it not a fact
I would say Fey that are more powerful then Eladrin. The true masters of the Feywild, the ones that can rival Demons and Devils and Things from Beyond the Stars.

If you want an idea of what be a good example of this kind of Fey, check out the True Fae in Changeling. Or, the old legends involving Fey-Folk (many of them almost have them as gods themselves).

For myself, it was a Fey trapped in the Hedge (stolen from Changeling) which is a area between the world and Feywild. It let the Human draw near to a area where the borders are weak and tricked it into going into the Hedge, where it tried to posses the Human. Hoping to see escape in the form of possessing this Human, it backfired and the Human escaped twisted by the Fey and with the powers of it as well.

Edit: One thing I emphasize is using the term "IT" to describe powerful-Fey. They may appear as female or male, but something that powerful with the range of illusions, charms, etc. it has is all-together not bound by such physical aspects and is far beyond such thoughts or ideas. It also puts emphasize on it being non-human in both behaviour and ethics, it has no moral compass or belief-structure beyond doing what it decides be enjoyable, amusing, etc.
I'm glad to see this post since I've been having discussions about this as well and I was having a hard time verbalizing my idea.

Essentially I saw it/them (the things making Feypacts) as almost Non-entities kind of like those mentioned above, i.e. ancient Fey powers unknown maybe even to the average Fey.

And having recently played the new edition of Changeling I plan on pulling some ideas from there as well.

Thanks for the answers people.
IMC, The fey are fairly heavily prevalent. The idea of making deals with Faeries is an old one, and there are plenty of critters who could give out powers.

It also depends on whether you see the pact as drawing power directly from a paton, or gaining knowledge from a patron in return for a service of some sort. Heck, there might not even be a go-between at all.

Heck, if you're an epic-level Eladrin, why shouldn't you be able to make pacts with lesser heroes? By that time, the cleric is likely to be a demigod and could have people praying to them. The wizard has a destiny that makes him a part of magic itself, and can start an arcane school in his name. The starlock becomes a freaking star! Is it really so far fetched for a warlock to become a pact maker at some point int heir career?

In our game we have two Feylocks.

One made her pact with a remnant of Jillian Maeve, the Queen of Air and Darkness. The QOAAD was once a mighty Unseelie Queen, until she was slain by the Dark Reaper (our game's Orcus) and her soul torn into pieces. Most of those incarnated in the Queen's descendants. One of the pieces became a Dreameater, a sort of living nightmare that feeds off people's emotions while they sleep. This spirit came to our PC and made a deal with her...she would be taught magical powers and arcane secrets in return for seeking out the descendants of the QOAAD and reuniting her soul. This pact manifests as mystical tattoos that cover the PC's entire body. They glow and move when the PC calls on the magic she learned from the dreamspirirt, though she has terrible nightmares as the spirit still feeds on her.

The other Feylock is actually a rogue who Multiclassed into the pact, so she doesn't know as many powers. She made a deal with a bee spirit, a Lamia made of buzzing bees instead of crawling beetles. The spirit sends her part of its swarm when she calls on its power, which means all her powers have some sort of bee aspect to them (her eyebite manifests as bees stinging the victim's eyes, we reflavored her blinding barrage into an arcane power that creates a brief swarm of bees stabbing at people's eyes, and her Otherwind Stride actually has her transforming into a swarm briefly when she teleports.) She knows that the spirit wants to get rid of something called The Piper, another fairy monster that is intruding in her domain.
56816218 wrote:
What I find most frustrating about 4E is that I can see it includes the D&D game I've always wanted to play, but the game is so lathered in tatical combat rules that I have thus far been unable to coax the game I want out.
When the Cat's a Stray, the Mice will Pray
i know this is my interpritation of the feywild and the fey pact, its more based off of the older fey lores that the things that go bump in the night are of farie where not all faries are cute little things with wings. these things are elemtanl gods or other such beigns to feral/powerfull/monsterous for most mortals to be able to handle seeing or being near them. i take it being they can be good or evil ( seelie or unseelie ) but thats my take on it not a fact

This is exactly my take on it. Using information found in R Talsorian Games "Castle Falkenstein", I've been able to flavor things up and toss in things like the Wild Hunt. A Feylock PC in my game has a problem at her house (and sometimes in her backpack) of gremlins and whatnot making of with things, weakening bowstrings, gluing knives into sheaths, etc. It's part of the price she pays for her deal with the seelie and unseelie courts.
I suppose there could be other examples of potential fey patrons. What about a drunken, fat satyr, sort of like Silenus? Or maybe a genius loci styled spirit, connected to the very land itself?
Thanks for your input, everyone. You've given me a lot to work with.
You should check out the novel "Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrel." It has a perfect example of powerful fey creatures and the pacts they can give and the costs of them.

The character of John Uskglass, the Raven King, is also a cool example of a human raised among fey who is so infused with magic he can give it. A sort of epic-level warlock.

A feylock should have to regularly deal with complications from brownies, changelings, fairies, dryads, etc. You finish an adventure and capture a magical item only to find there's an open hole in your pack and it's gone. Except when you stick your hand in it doesn't come out the other side. You realize it's a portal to the Feywild and a brownie has run away with your goods. Side story! Down the rabbit hole you go.
It could be something sinister and unique. In Cormyr (4th Edition), it is against the law to cut down trees from one part of the kings forest, because of a slumbering "something" that live within it. A fey entity called the Queen-of-Thorns. A little bit fey, a little bit demonic & more then just a little bit divine.

If one exists how many others exist?

If you are looking for similiar ideas in novels, you should check a series of books... can't remeber the series name, but the first book is called The Briar King (By Gregory Keyes)
The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. -Albert Einstein When the forces of stupid collide, magical things happen. And by magical, I mean ******* moronic. - Anon
Hey there,

Just wondering, who or what exactly is giving the Feylock their power? Infernals have devils, Starlocks have stars/elder beings...

I was talking this over with someone and well, I guess our main issue with the Fey pact is that one could potentially play something that could be a power giver (eladrin). Or can eladrin not make pacts with lesser beings? Is it unicorns? Gnomes? Green Dragons? What type of fey creature can/would make a pact with potential warlock? What types of creatures have those of you playing feylocks made deals with?

And when you did, did it feel like eating a bowl of Lucky Charms?

Oberron's Children. The Puck. Things of that nature.
What do you think would happen if once you reach epic, you battle and kill the entity that gave you your powers? Would you lose them and revert back to a level 0 non-heroic PC?

Cause I have an eladrin feylock that is trying to amass and hone his power, so that when he has to pay his share back to the fey god he can overcome it and live to tell about it.
I would say at that level after defeating the Fey he would take the mantle and whatever source he gained the power from would be his own. So say the Fey gained power through Contracts with various immortal beings (ripping off Changeling here) his character would gain this Contracts.
I generally figure that the warlocks of all pacts are simply tapped into a power source in-general rather than having a specific patron or whathaveyou. They're drawing on the innate power of the Feywild, or the Infernal zone, or the Stars, rather than necessary 'this fairy' or 'this demon' or 'this entity'.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
Hey Triss. Check out the 31+ Flavors of Warlock in my sig. ALOT of people posted their feylocks with a story on how they got it.

You can use real-world faerie legends like Titania, Oberon, Mab, even Tink! Or you can make one up, like I and many others did. Hope you have fun with fey pacts! IMAGE(http://forums.gumtree.com/images/smiles/eusa_dance.gif)

Addendum: BABA YAGA! How awesome would that be!?!?
These are some great suggestions - another place to look for inspiration would be the Dresden Files novels. especially Summer Knight. Some of the Fey in these books are just about the scariest things around, topped only (barely) by the Fallen Angels. Dresden even has a Fairy Godmother who actively tries to kill or enslave him through much of the early novels. :D
Baba Yaga... got to love pacts with cannibals...
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You ever see Cat's Eye? That little troll that comes out of the wall at night and steal's your breath?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJM2jgPe6Ew

That's fey.

p.s. This is a good reason to keep a pet cat at all times.
You ever see Cat's Eye? That little troll that comes out of the wall at night and steal's your breath?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJM2jgPe6Ew

That's fey.

p.s. This is a good reason to keep a pet cat at all times.

This link has the whole scene, including battle with KITTY!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_cFNbrPLx4&NR=1
This link has the whole scene, including battle with KITTY!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_cFNbrPLx4&NR=1

Kitty=good.

Unseelie troll creature that steals your life force while you sleep=bad
The novel Bloody Bones by Laurell K. Hamilton had the coolest fae monster i've ever read about- The titular monster, Rawhead and Bloody Bones. Worth checking out for fae inspiration, and Changeling: The lost books are invaluable for anyone who likes the fae.

-SvD

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I always have thought of pact creatures rivaling gods in power. After all, the players will do that on their own eventually (Demigod Epic path), so the creature has to be more powerful, even then. My first thought was a great forest spirit, similar to the Forest Spirit in Hiyao Miyazaki's Princess Mononoke, another idea was a nature based deity, like Melora for example, or a lesser deity under melora, similar to the Celtic deity Cernunnos. Eladrin may be the rulers of the Feywild, but it is the great otherworldly beings that grant even them power.
my eladrin feylock made a pact of blood on the graves of her ancestors as part of a birthright/naming ceremony.

Eladrin and elves don't die like humans do, and can still exert their influence and power in the world.

And ghaele of winter and brahene (or w/e) of autumn ARE powerful fey that could make pacts with mortals. And if a fey character goes demi-god... well who's to say you can't reflavor it as some sort of arch-fey paragon to go along with the Lords of the Nine and the Demon Princes and the Elder gods of the Far Realms?
Have you ever read the Dresden Files?

Some of those novels are brilliant when it comes to inspiring Fey Pacts. Yeah, you could have a Fairy Godmother, but she'll be back for her due. When your soul goes to the fey, it can be traded for other favors and you could find your Godmother sold your soul to the Queen of Winter.

And remember - Summer doesn't mean good. The fey are amoral, alien creatures outside of the understanding of mortals.

Go to sleep... or the fey will get you...
Have you ever read the Dresden Files?

Some of those novels are brilliant when it comes to inspiring Fey Pacts. Yeah, you could have a Fairy Godmother, but she'll be back for her due. When your soul goes to the fey, it can be traded for other favors and you could find your Godmother sold your soul to the Queen of Winter.

And remember - Summer doesn't mean good. The fey are amoral, alien creatures outside of the understanding of mortals.

Go to sleep... or the fey will get you...

actually, going to sleep will just have you wake up after a fifty year time warp.

don't go to sleep near the fey unless you know they need you for something, and need you in your time and relatively unscathed.
Star worshippers worship Cthulu, stuck out in the blackness. Infernals worship those trapped out in the Abyss. Fey worshippers worship those beings right here and right now that can just reach out and smack you upside the head. Star worshippers are trying to bring their god to this plane, to this planet. Infernal worshippers are trying to free their god and release them on this dimension, this earth. Fey worshippers worship those beings that are already free and moving around here. Fey worshippers worship those things that cast the shadows on the moon at night, the things hiding under the stairs, the things that go bump in the night.

Or they could worship the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy -- it's your choice. *shrug*
But Infernal pacts are more the Faustian bargain, which is common to devils. Demons are simply too "DeathKill McStabbypants" to make pacts.
You remember those old fairy tales like Rumpelstiltskin where he made a bargin for the first born child? There were all sorts of stories about the fey folk stealing children. Provided that they weren't eaten (like Hansel and Gretel), or had their souls stolen...

Wonder what would happen to a kid like that in 18 or so years.
Aesop had it right 2,500 years ago, "By endeavoring to please everyone, he had pleased no one, and lost his ass in the bargain".
Hey there,

Just wondering, who or what exactly is giving the Feylock their power? Infernals have devils, Starlocks have stars/elder beings...

I was talking this over with someone and well, I guess our main issue with the Fey pact is that one could potentially play something that could be a power giver (eladrin). Or can eladrin not make pacts with lesser beings? Is it unicorns? Gnomes? Green Dragons? What type of fey creature can/would make a pact with potential warlock? What types of creatures have those of you playing feylocks made deals with?

And when you did, did it feel like eating a bowl of Lucky Charms?

My character MCd to Feylock by doing a service for the Earlking a la the Dresden Files, specifically Dead Beat. An ancient fey, and leader of the wild Hunt.
Mindarthis(my character) was driven slightly insane by the pact, and he has an image of the feywild burned into his eyes, so that the world looks like a double exposed photograph. (I had to take a flaw for the feat.)

Edit: I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who reads Jim Butcher.

Also, look to Irish Mythology.

Seelie and Unseelie are mor like Light and Dark than Good and evil. They have different morals than we do.
Ahh, so THIS is where I can add a sig. Remember: Killing an ancient God inside of a pyramid IS a Special Occasion, and thus, ladies should be dipping into their Special Occasions underwear drawer.
Hmmm. You know, I always thought of the fey like one would think of primordials or elementals. Primordials were the beings that fought with the gods at the creation of the universe, right? Under the right circumstances, couldn't you make a deal with one of them? Also, I remember reading about someones feylock having had forged a deal with a Elemental of Autumn and taking the elemental into himself. I'd imagine this is a bit more like forging a deal with a Final Fantasy elemental.

Both concepts sound pretty cool to me. Personally I find them to be a bit less comical than making a deal with Rumplestiltskein or however you spell it, ya know?
Hmmm. You know, I always thought of the fey like one would think of primordials or elementals. Primordials were the beings that fought with the gods at the creation of the universe, right? Under the right circumstances, couldn't you make a deal with one of them? Also, I remember reading about someones feylock having had forged a deal with a Elemental of Autumn and taking the elemental into himself. I'd imagine this is a bit more like forging a deal with a Final Fantasy elemental.

Both concepts sound pretty cool to me. Personally I find them to be a bit less comical than making a deal with Rumplestiltskein or however you spell it, ya know?

Oh, I don't know about that. Imagine the Rumpelstiltskin story as a game plot:

A girl is placed an impossible position by her father. A mysterious gnome-like figure promises to save her from the predicament, but at a cost. First, the cost is slight. A necklace, an old ring--but then she's out of things to pay with. The gnome promises to help her one final time--for the cost of her first born son. As she has no children, she agrees.

Because of the gnomes help, the girl becomes wealthy and powerful, a princess in the land. And then the gnome returns, and demands his reward...

What does he want the child for, anyway? And worse, what will happen if he is denied, and his magic is turned against the kingdom? Gnomes are already tricksters who can hide themselves quite well when they need to.

Just remember how vicious and nasty the fey of the really old folktales were before they got bowlderized, and they will seem a lot less silly in a hurry.
56816218 wrote:
What I find most frustrating about 4E is that I can see it includes the D&D game I've always wanted to play, but the game is so lathered in tatical combat rules that I have thus far been unable to coax the game I want out.
When the Cat's a Stray, the Mice will Pray
I would say Fey that are more powerful then Eladrin. The true masters of the Feywild, the ones that can rival Demons and Devils and Things from Beyond the Stars.

If you want an idea of what be a good example of this kind of Fey, check out the True Fae in Changeling. Or, the old legends involving Fey-Folk (many of them almost have them as gods themselves).

For myself, it was a Fey trapped in the Hedge (stolen from Changeling) which is a area between the world and Feywild. It let the Human draw near to a area where the borders are weak and tricked it into going into the Hedge, where it tried to posses the Human. Hoping to see escape in the form of possessing this Human, it backfired and the Human escaped twisted by the Fey and with the powers of it as well.

Edit: One thing I emphasize is using the term "IT" to describe powerful-Fey. They may appear as female or male, but something that powerful with the range of illusions, charms, etc. it has is all-together not bound by such physical aspects and is far beyond such thoughts or ideas. It also puts emphasize on it being non-human in both behaviour and ethics, it has no moral compass or belief-structure beyond doing what it decides be enjoyable, amusing, etc.

Random note: I also chose Fey Pact because of Changeling. I still find the phrase "Eladrin Feylock" highly entertaining. 8o)

To get on-topic: I never really considered exactly who (or what) I signed a pact with. I saw it more as borrowing power from powerful creatures from my homeland that I had befriended in my childhood.

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The Grimm tales are actually a little bit sanitized from their original sources. Likewise Hans Christian Anderson.

I love how legendarily even the name "fair folk" was used in order to not give offense to these creatures.
A couple things:

I always figured that Warlock Pacts were like Divine Investitures in 4e - You bargain for the power, you are given the power, and then you have the power. Once you have it, it's yours, it isn't continually tapped from it's source. Higher level powers represent better a better understanding of the arcane power you were granted, rather then new powers being given by your patron.

Going against your patron's wishes might anger them, but it wouldn't cause your powers to go away unless doing so broke the original pact.


As for what the pacts are made with - they're made with the Arch Fey, epic level unique fey that we haven't seen much of in printed rules. I imagine they'd generally be associated with seasons or natural bodies or concepts in the feywild. Arch-Fey of summer, Arch-Fey of the South Wind, Arch-Fey of the Greenbank River, etc.


My own Bard (multiclassed cleric, multiclassed ranger, multiclassed feylock) made her pact with the fey being Lorelai (Arch-Fey of the Night Breeze, Exarch of Corellon, and Patron of Woodwind Instruments). As part of the pact, my bard must compose one tune about Lorelai every lunar cycle, and must teach at least one of them to a woodwind player in every town he passes through. In at least one town, she had to teach someone to play a set of simple pipes, as no one there already knew how to play an appropriate instrument. For this reason she always keeps at least one extra instrument with her.


As long as she keeps composing and teaching these tunes, she will maintain the terms of her pact, even if she has a falling out with Lorelai and starts working against its interests. Heck, she might compose and teach tunes about Lorelai's greed, cruelty, or foolishness, and they would still fulfill the terms of the pact.
My character gained her power from the Erlking. I love Dresden files and my DM has essentially established that as the default resource for the Fey in our campaign world. How did she get her power. She happened to find the wild hunt after she got on a horse while running awayfrom some people trying to recapture her after orchestrating a slave rebellion. After she stayed on, as a reward the erlking blessed her with it's powers, on the condition that in 20 years she goes on the wild hunt as it's prey. She wants to survive this, so she is gaining power as fast as she possibly can.