Tieflings and pacts, a bit of oddness

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So I'm looking through my PHB, marvelling at the goodness of it - the layout, the referencing. Amazing, amazing book. Then I start reading the warlock.

And flip back to the tiefling.

And I realize that there's something distinctly odd going on with the interaction between the mechanics and the flavor.

Is it just me, or is the infernal pact the WORST choice for a tiefling, of the three pacts? Loads of Con-based powers, no Con bonus on the tiefling.
Con for Infernal Pact, right... but you don't *need* a racial bonus on your primary stat. It's optimal, but not required.
Maybe your DM would let you fudge it for one of the other bonuses if you asked nicely.
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97183719 wrote:
Seeing as there is a disconnect between balance (quantifiable) and fun, (subjective and personal) discussing fun in a thread about balance because you find one system more enjoyable than another is as helpful as discussing religion in a thread about architectural engineering because you think cathedrals look prettier than outhouses.
Con for Infernal Pact, right... but you don't *need* a racial bonus on your primary stat. It's optimal, but not required.
Maybe your DM would let you fudge it for one of the other bonuses if you asked nicely.

I don't see it as a problem so much as an oddity... one would think that the tiefling would be designed to encourage the infernal pact strongly.
I don't see it as a problem so much as an oddity... one would think that the tiefling would be designed to encourage the infernal pact strongly.

But you don't need crunch for that. You have a ton of expectation to get people to play that option.
16 14 13 12 11 10

+2 Int +2 Cha

Str 10
Con 16
Dex 11
Int 16
Wis 12
Cha 15

or

Str 10
Con 18
Dex 10
Int 14
Wis 10
Cha 14

It is funny that they don't make the "best" Infernal Warlocks (that's Githyanki actually) but they always make solid Warlocks.

In the desert
I saw a creature, naked, bestial,
who, squatting upon the ground,
held his heart in his hands, and ate of it.
I said, "is it good, friend?"
"It is bitter – bitter," he answered;
"but I like it,
"beacuase it is bitter,
"and because it is my heart."

You could argue that teiflings have the most experience with how stupid it is to make infernal pacts...

Needless to say, very few of them will be eating Aunt May's wheatcakes anytime soon.
Sig to be rebuilt soon The Descendants-- the webserial that reads like a comic book! World of Ere-- A campaign setting that puts style to the fore.
If people only played races that are optimized for their class, things get pretty boring fast. But I do not think races that gain benefits to their classes primary stat are necessarily more powerful than other races that don't. PCs that get bonuses to other stats can spend more points on their primary stats without worrying as much as the other stats being too low. Races have unique bonuses and feats that can be used cleverly to make them equal to more suitable races. You just have to put more effort in. Or atleast, thats what I want to believe.
Yes, tieflings really want to make an infernal pact, because the last one turned out so well....
They say Dwarves were born from holes in the ground, now we know they crawled up from the depths of Hell...
I don't know if I'd call it worst. The stats LFK posted look good for any first level warlock. As I've told my players, you don't HAVE to have an 18 or better in your primary stat for your character to work. If you crank all of your points into one stat, and leave the others lower, you're much more limited in the other powers you can use. An infernal pact tiefling would actually be a stronger warlock, as s/he could more easily take powers from the other pacts. (The first character I put together is actually an infernal pact tiefling warlock, can't wait to try her out!)
They're no worse off than half the other races (including a human who took +2 to Con) at infernal pacts, but they can also take Hellfire Blood, which makes up for it and puts them ahead of the other races.
It also puts them ahead of anyone else if they take spells with the Fire and Fear keywords that rely on Charisma (such as Dread Star and Witchfire).
I didn't mean that the tiefling is the worst race to make an infernal pact... the oddness is that, for a tiefling warlock, the mechanically least optimal pact to make is infernal.
I didn't mean that the tiefling is the worst race to make an infernal pact... the oddness is that, for a tiefling warlock, the mechanically least optimal pact to make is infernal.

Wait a year. I expect there's going to be some "Pimp my Pact" splatbook which makes it more optimal, if not outright broken.
Don't forget also that Tieflings have the racial feat which gives them a bonus to fire attack rolls (and maybe another type, I forget), which is very good on an infernal pact.
You could argue that teiflings have the most experience with how stupid it is to make infernal pacts...

Needless to say, very few of them will be eating Aunt May's wheatcakes anytime soon.

Which explains the intelligence bonus.. They choose the hot red-headed supermodel wife over the 'should have kicked the bucket a LONG time ago old woman'

Makes me wonder just how good those wheatcakes are... Because, I know what my choice would be. :D
Look at elves in 3E. They were "the best wizards", but got a bonus to Dexterity, not Intelligence.

Not pairing stats with "preferred" class has been the way of things for D&D for decades.
Asmodeus: "Come Fyrwan Brighthorn...I shall give you ETERNAL POWER(tm) in exchange for your soul...a small price."

Tiefling: "Sorry...gramps made that mistake...I'm gonna go chill with Titania."

Its an oddity, sure, but an understandable one.
Asmodeus: "Come Fyrwan Brighthorn...I shall give you ETERNAL POWER(tm) in exchange for your soul...a small price."

Tiefling: "Sorry...gramps made that mistake...I'm gonna go chill with Titania."

Amodeus: *GRUMBLE* *MUTTER* "All right, where in the Nine Hells is the idiot who signed off on THAT pact...?"
Actually he knows exactly who. He punished 'em so bad their memory has been wiped form mortal memory.
Sig to be rebuilt soon The Descendants-- the webserial that reads like a comic book! World of Ere-- A campaign setting that puts style to the fore.
Actually he knows exactly who. He punished 'em so bad their memory has been wiped form mortal memory.

So what you really mean is that he used to know exactly who?
Azzy's not mortal, silly :P
Sig to be rebuilt soon The Descendants-- the webserial that reads like a comic book! World of Ere-- A campaign setting that puts style to the fore.
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