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1 year ago ::
Mar 12, 2012 - 12:22AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Jul 25, 2009
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So, last week I was running the second session and I got a TPK.
I still have mixed feeling about it, but to those think a Total Party Kill is impossible in 4e, you're wrong: it is.
And it wasn't even against an unwinnable enemy, I was just doing, more or less, what Wizards was telling me to do for that night.
* They forgot about the healing potions I gave them last week.
* None of tgen was a cleric, all over them were strikers or very strikery
* They rolled badly
* I rolled well
* They made a series of stupid mistakes, such as focusing on the elementals when it was the minions bringing them down, and provoking opportunity attacks when bloodied.
In the end they were all making death saves around the table...and none of them rolled a 20! In the end we had a few spectators to see them all die.
I think some are coming back as their characters, minus healing surges, but some have the option to make new characters which I hope a few at least take up on.
Any thoughts? Did you guys think this was even possible?
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1 year ago ::
Mar 12, 2012 - 2:07AM
#2
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TPK is always possible in 4e, especially at level 1 and even more likely when running a published adventure with an unbalanced party (and even more likely when the players lack tactical insight/experience). It is what makes designing/developing Encounters relatively difficult. What is the correct challenge level for the majority of tables? It is also one of the reasons why there is a DM of course: modify the adventure to suite their group's taste and skill. As the designers though I do try to give the tools to help the DM modify the challenge of a particular encounter (mostly through terrain and the pressence of NPCs). Ofcourse, a TPK is not automatically bad. I know the players in my home game would not like it when I purposely downgrade the challenge during a fight if things go against them because of mistakes on their side. I hope your players still had fun?
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1 year ago ::
Mar 12, 2012 - 8:06AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Oct 20, 2010
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Heh. I don't think we've played a season yet that didn't have at least 1 TPK. It happens, it's life (or... death). It's why you get renown for taking a lot of damage. And there's barely any consequence in Encounters for death, so we try not to worry about it.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 12, 2012 - 8:38AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Oct 13, 2007
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My table could have been a TPK last week. I have a number of brand new players including a father & daughter both playing defenders. Since many at my table were new I took the time to give some tactical advice and suggestions to the players. For those experienced players at my table I pulled no punches when they did something I could take advantage of. This encounter with the spread out ranged minions made it fun.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 12, 2012 - 10:33AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Dec 10, 2008
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The OP's report sounds almost exactly like what happened at the table I was DMing last week, with the exception that while the last PC was dying he did roll a 20 on a DST. Didn't help him though. Sure, I could have just coup de graced him to get it over with, but having him actually roll the 20 was fun.
I cut them a lot of slack too. I didn't use the elementals' reaction power once, I never did a coup de grace on anyone who was down, even when it was a foregone conclusion, I cut the players a breaks on powers they should have declared beforehand but didn't, like letting them retroactively declare using a stance, I let them have cover when they technically shouldn't have had it, I ALWAYS give newer players hints on how to use their powers effectively, I reminded them that they had healing potions to use and I explained to them how they could use Heal checks to trigger a second wind. That's just part of the fun - teaching players how to be more effective and helping them to win.
The party's problems were pretty much what you described: everyone wants to be the striker, running off on their own and getting slaughtered, a few unlucky rolls and poor tactics. This week we're going to start the session with a little recap where everyone is going to take a few minutes thinking about and sharing what they (each person speaking for himself) could have done differently so it will be less likely to happen next time.
Still, we all had fun though, no big deal. TPKs happen.
OD&D, 1E and 2E challenged the player.
3E challenged the character, not the player.
Now 4E takes it a step further by challenging a GROUP OF PLAYERS to work together as a TEAM.
That's why I love 4E.
"Your ability to summon a horde of celestial superbeings at will is making my ... BMX skills look a bit redundant."
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1 year ago ::
Mar 16, 2012 - 3:56PM
#6
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- Dragon Slayer
- If only he would apply himself
- Dammit Jim, this is Star Trek, not D&D!
Date Joined:
Jan 31, 2006
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TPKs are absolutely possible in 4E. They are actually fairly commonplace - as common in 4E as in any previous edition, in my experience. This is especially true with low levels, because the margin of error is smaller (damage is higher relative to PC hit points at level 1).
With this season, some encounters are a bit hard to scale. A really critical task for DMs is to consider the best way to scale when the table has 4 PCs. A number of the monsters hit really hard, and Madfox is a very smart author - these encounters can challenge. As DMs we bear the responsibility of tackling that challenge and making sure it is appropriate. For example, it is ok to remind players (and their PCs) of things they are forgetting (such as potions or tactics like focusing fire). While we playtest for a common standard, no adventure can really work for all the tables out there, especially with dice behaving the way they often do!
Follow my blog and Twitter feed with Dark Sun campaign design and DM tips! Dark Sun's Ashes of Athas Campaign is now available for home play (PM me with your e-mail to order the campaign adventures).
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