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1 year ago ::
Jan 11, 2012 - 3:03PM
#11
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An example of how bad this is? I was called in to run session 5, having missed 3 and 4, but with very little prep. Any week of Neverwinter or Evard, I'd have been fine. Session 5, I mentioned the keys, and all my players gave me blank looks. I've now read the module a little more thoroughly (as well as having run more sessions) and lo and behold: the PCs are supposed to know they need the keys, but where is it ever mentioned to tell them this?!?!? It seems like the leprechauns would have been a good fit for that....? Nope. It says in the front of the book that it's important that they get the keys. But nowhere in the module that I've found does it tell the PLAYERS that it's important to get the keys.
Page 23, Column 2, under Conclusion
"The leprechauns can tell the characters anything they need to know about the archfey agents and Soryth's curse. They tell the characters that Soryth lives in a hidden castle, the Palace of Spires, that is hard to access. To do so, the characters hneed leaves as keys - one shamrock, one oak, one rose, and one mistletoe."
That's the first reference I found to introduce those clues to my players. I even included it again in a handout before session 5 started, recapping that information for everyone at my table.
As a DM, I find it easier to just punish the players no matter what they pick, as I assume they will pick stuff that is broken. I mean, fight after fight they kill all the monsters without getting killed themselves! What sort of a game is this, anyway?
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1 year ago ::
Jan 11, 2012 - 4:35PM
#12
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Date Joined:
Dec 31, 2003
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Design notes: By design it is indeed a linked plot, where investment in the adventure is rewarded. Maybe that's not the best thing for Encounters, but there it is. I'm sorry it's causing problems for some, though I hope it's rewarding--or at least different--for others. As for the leaves, they were a little more attached to the plot in the original. In session 9, gremlins or boggles try to steal them while the characteres sleep (now a xivort attack); it was another branching encounter, depending on whether Orlando is alive or dead, but was the first to go when the adventure had to be cut for length. Here's how the text looked, along with design notes that addressed the issue of the leaves Spoiler:
Show
The characters gain an ordinary shamrock, necessary for entering the Palace of Spires through the labyrinth in session 10.[S1] They now have a decision to make. With Juliana gone, do they travel to the encampment of the Green Lord or the Summer Queen?
[S1]It’s possible that the whole business of gathering leaves to enter the Palace of Spires should be cut, since it takes up space and the characters don’t really have to DO anything to get the leaves. However, I’ve left it in for a few reasons. 1) It provides a throughline for the adventure. As the characters gather these leaves, it’s like a measure of progress toward their goal. 2) It’s an element from the original module. 3) The little leprechaun’s speech hammers home a bit more how the villain is in control of this place, oppressing the fey that live here, raises the stakes a little. On the downside: again, putting the leaves in takes up space in encounters, they don’t really do anything special (and I think there’s enough special stuff in this adventure that the leaves shouldn’t be special too), and the characters don’t have to DO anything to find them, since we can’t have a situation where they’d miss the keys they needed to continue in encounter 10. As the adventure went along, whenever the PCs acquired more of these, there was a little reminder. There was nothing they had to do to acquire them--they just get them automatically, so if they forget, the DM says "you have those." This is from another cut "split path" encounter in session 6: Conclusion The characters find mistletoe growing here by the nymphs. With the shamrock from session 4 and the oak leaves from session 5, they now possess 3 leaves necessary for entering the Palace of Spires through the labyrinth in session 10.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 12, 2012 - 9:31AM
#13
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Date Joined:
Oct 13, 2007
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I am running this season at my FLGS and we have a group of players that have been playing together for a few seasons. The module is good overall but I am finding the story to be overly complex for an Encounters setting.
Most players at my table have given up remembering who is who. It seems each week they are introduced to a new NPC that many times has two names. Each name is used by different people. It makes for a good story and if played in a home setting with a longer play session I think the players would be able to make more sense of the story line. With the limited play time and the focus of Encounters being ease of play most all the players are very confusued even with copious amounts of notes they have taken.
A couple of people have mentioned handouts they have created to outline the NPCs. If anyone would be willing to share that would be great.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 12, 2012 - 9:21PM
#14
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Date Joined:
Mar 31, 2009
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Design notes:
By design it is indeed a linked plot, where investment in the adventure is rewarded. Maybe that's not the best thing for Encounters, but there it is. I'm sorry it's causing problems for some, though I hope it's rewarding--or at least different--for others.
It's both different and rewarding for my group. They have finally pieced together what is going on with Orlando/Porpherio and Juliana/Caerwyn, and what Soryth and Kalbon are actually up to, and they felt really good when they finally did so.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 13, 2012 - 7:27AM
#15
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Date Joined:
Dec 31, 2003
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Glad to hear it, ScottyMet.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 15, 2012 - 10:56AM
#16
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I also feel that this season has been overly complex for an Encounters module. The first poster echos my thoughts; Im ready for the season to be over, and it's finally tipped me to taking next season off as a DM (I've been DMing since Undermountain).
There are far too many NPCs to keep track of and I find that unless players are writing names down they forget what's going on from week to week.
I love the emphasis on role-playing and story, that's my favorite aspect of the game, but things need to be streamlined in this sort of format. I had two players, brand new to Encounters, show up this past week. I did my best to give a simplified account of what's happened so far, but they were still thoroughly lost.
I see Encounters moving away from a weekly "drop-in" type game that welcomed new payers, and moving toward trying to give it the complexity of a regular home D&D game. If you have a dedicated table of players that consistently show up each week this might work better, but I don't think that most of us have that luxury. Players come and go, and I see my table of players change up throughout the season.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 18, 2012 - 11:39AM
#17
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I've been running Encounters since season one and by far, this is my least favorite. I agree that it's too complex for the Encounters program. I made a recap packet to hand out to newcomers about 3-4 weeks into the season and it ended up being a 3 1/2 page monstrosity. It was around that time that I realized that this adventure into the Feywild is far too complex to support the easy going "drop in, drop out" mantra.
I know that I will have a new player coming to the game tonight and I'm trying to think of how I can catch him up to the story. At this point there is so much information to pass on that I can only think to say "you have traveled to the Feywild to rescue two lovers who were called there by a nefarious being. But something happened when they crossed over and the two are no longer quite themselves."
I agree with what was said before, the module would be fine in a home game. The large story and large amount of information are nothing new to that type of play environment. But in the "casual" Encounters setting, I don't think it's very friendly. So yeah, I'm ready for this one to end as well.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 18, 2012 - 12:19PM
#18
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I have not run Encounters before this season, it is my first.
For the most part, I've enjoyed running it. And, as a player in the past, I enjoy these kinds of mods. I honestly would not show up if it was a casual "fight of the week" type format. By having a narrative that runs through the whole mod, I think it's helped keep people coming back to the table.
Something I look towards, as a player, is the idea of a "season." That means I'm making a commitment to show up for the whole story, start to finish. (And each season I've participated in, since Dark Sun, I've only missed 1 session per season, to the best of my memory.) That's a behavior I've seen across the 3 tables that have grown at our FLGS.
Almost everyone who comes is making the commitment to a weekly engagement, versus a drop-in mentality, with very few exceptions. (I can think of 2, maybe 3 people across our 3 tables. And our regulars usually fill 5-6 chairs per table even without these irregulars.)
I think it's unfortunate that some of your stores have a "drop-in" approach to Encounters, but I think it's wrong to point towards the module having a complex plot as part of the problem. Encounters is, in what experience I've had, a league-style game where you make plans to show up the whole season to play for your team. It's not a pick-up game format.
Maybe WotC needs a "Combat Unrelated" encounter program, where it's just a tactical game with no overarcing story that DMs have to worry about dropping irregulars into. Based on my past couple of seasons as a player, though, I'd say Encounters is not currently that format and shouldn't be blamed for not being that.
As a DM, I find it easier to just punish the players no matter what they pick, as I assume they will pick stuff that is broken. I mean, fight after fight they kill all the monsters without getting killed themselves! What sort of a game is this, anyway?
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1 year ago ::
Jan 18, 2012 - 5:21PM
#19
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Date Joined:
Dec 24, 2007
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I have not run Encounters before this season, it is my first.
For the most part, I've enjoyed running it. And, as a player in the past, I enjoy these kinds of mods. I honestly would not show up if it was a casual "fight of the week" type format. By having a narrative that runs through the whole mod, I think it's helped keep people coming back to the table.
Something I look towards, as a player, is the idea of a "season." That means I'm making a commitment to show up for the whole story, start to finish. (And each season I've participated in, since Dark Sun, I've only missed 1 session per season, to the best of my memory.) That's a behavior I've seen across the 3 tables that have grown at our FLGS.
Almost everyone who comes is making the commitment to a weekly engagement, versus a drop-in mentality, with very few exceptions. (I can think of 2, maybe 3 people across our 3 tables. And our regulars usually fill 5-6 chairs per table even without these irregulars.)
I think it's unfortunate that some of your stores have a "drop-in" approach to Encounters, but I think it's wrong to point towards the module having a complex plot as part of the problem. Encounters is, in what experience I've had, a league-style game where you make plans to show up the whole season to play for your team. It's not a pick-up game format.
Maybe WotC needs a "Combat Unrelated" encounter program, where it's just a tactical game with no overarcing story that DMs have to worry about dropping irregulars into. Based on my past couple of seasons as a player, though, I'd say Encounters is not currently that format and shouldn't be blamed for not being that.
There is nothing in your post that is right at all.
Encounters has never been touted as being for dedicated groups. The format is specifically designed to assist with people being dropped into different stores in different countries without missing a beat. It's not for dedicated groups - that's what home games are for.
Encounters is for hard working schmucks like us to get their couple hours of dice rolling and role playing in while looking for a dedicated home group of friends to play with. That many have taken it to BE their dedicated weekly group is entirely a side issue and not entirely bad but NOT the intent of Encounters.
I'm not looking for moderator action here, so I'll stop there.
This module was terrible for Encounters. It has killed our weekly fun and driven a couple people away temporarily. I'm now just waiting for the next season as the organizer.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 19, 2012 - 7:26AM
#20
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I'm not looking for moderator action here, so I'll stop there.
I never claimed to understand what the original intent of the Encounters program was. I was only speaking from my personal experience of what it had been for me at my FLGS. If that experience is not what the program was made for, perhaps something needs to be addressed with the design team.
Maybe the next season will be yet another expedition to the Temple of Elemental Evil. That might be the plotless, drop-in, meat grinder of the week for new people to pick up that you're looking for, though.
As a DM, I find it easier to just punish the players no matter what they pick, as I assume they will pick stuff that is broken. I mean, fight after fight they kill all the monsters without getting killed themselves! What sort of a game is this, anyway?
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