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1 year ago ::
Jan 05, 2012 - 10:47PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Jun 21, 2009
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Sorry for this rant, but honestly I just want this season to be over already.
I am simply not having any fun. Before I get to that let me explain a few things. This is the 5th season I have been a GM for Encounters. IMHO this is the worst season save for perhaps "Now Let's Fight in the Desert...again," er I mean Dark Sun.
We have two other tables that I am trying to organize, but if there are any issues people come to me. I am having to deal with players complaining about a newer GM with loose understanding of the rules who not only interprets things literally but still thinks this is 1st ed. in a very Gygaxian way and another very fresh GM (he learned playing in Evard Season 5) who did not expect to have all this roleplay.
The mod itself is simply not written well for Encounters. Numerous characters are intoduced whom the players are having to keep track of each week. For a single encounter session there is too much to keep track of. Some are not important and will never show up again. The combats are simply brutal and should not be as complex as they are. The mods do not follow many of the 4E rules and go off book such as having the players make "active perception checks" to avoid surprise when they should be able to use their passives. Don't get me started on the waste of a session that was "week 0."
Considering my players have only one or two surges left I am pretty sure the Verbeg will TPK them this next week.
Many of the combats are meant to be ended in non-fatal ways, but most of our players are use to the violent method so no NPC is left alive.
Lastly any creative spark I might have had is out. I
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1 year ago ::
Jan 06, 2012 - 1:05AM
#2
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- Dragon Slayer
- If only he would apply himself
- Dammit Jim, this is Star Trek, not D&D!
Date Joined:
Jan 31, 2006
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I'm very sorry to hear it! Some quick ideas.
- Before each session, meet for 5-10 minutes with the other judges and review this session. See if they have questions, review possible pitfalls, and verify that the Gygaxian and new DM understand what players likely want. (And, in theory, both Gygaxian and total new 4E play should be fun if done well... that's were a head DM can provide some pointers).
- For a bit more time, consider setting up a Google or Yahoo group and discussing each upcoming session the week prior so that these issues are ironed out. Honestly, this is a good thing to do regardless
- Consider creating a handout that lists the NPCs they have met and gives a 1 sentence description.
- Roleplay can be fun for the non-actor. It is about less "staging a TV show" and more "present choices". But, I would have to know more about the DM to really comment on how to help here.
- Brutal combats: reduce all damage by 1 die size (d10 to d8). Remember to use scaling in the PCs' favor. Put in an escape clause for each combat. For example, if the party is doing poorly, maybe that "attack three times" attack suddenly becomes "attack two times" when the creature is bloodied, and the PCs can learn that with a knowledge check. But, in general, take steps to tone down combats if needed.
- If players are near a TPK but should not be, provide them with surgeless healing via an NPC, meal, consumable item you make up, in-combat terrain feature you make up, etc.
- Have friendly NPCs point out that lethal combat is seldom seen here and suggest they use it so they can learn about their opponents.
- It is overall very good for Encounters to try new things. Otherwise it would get really stale playing 1-3rd level each time. All experimenting leads to some issues.
- I hope you get the creative spark back. But, it is good to take breaks every so often. You might want to step away for a season, then come back.
Follow my blog and Twitter feed with Dark Sun campaign design and DM tips! Dark Sun's Ashes of Athas Campaign is now available for home play (PM me with your e-mail to order the campaign adventures).
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1 year ago ::
Jan 06, 2012 - 1:25AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Aug 30, 2008
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I am also sorry to hear it. A couple of things:
- DM burn out is a serious issue and I encourage my DMs to take a break for a season after DMing two seasons.
- This adventure requires way more prep than the previous 3 seasons combined. On one hand this is awesome for those DMs that have time to read ahead, plan out their session in advance. It can pay off in may cool and interesting ways, with the right players.
Any time my DMs are reading the adventure 1 hour before table time, there is going to be a problem. If the players are butt-kickers only, this will also be a problem.
- This last fight was way too complicated for the unprepared or new DM. Flight, water combat, and mounts rarely come up on low heroic play and this one has all three. In retrospect I should have stepped away from playing and helped my new DM run the table.
- As Alphastream suggests, I have a DM mail list where all my DMs past and present can chat back and forth on DDE. I created this from day one so I had a means of archived communication.
- Besides having a quick DMs meeting to bring up potential pot holes and feild questions from my DMs I would also suggest talking with the players at that table about their expectations for this adventure. If everyone wants to kick-butt and take names, then by all means, alter the adventure to suit that style of play.
- I have started a thread on how to run the solo so that you don't splatter the PCs. Trust me, unless I roll really bad and/or the players are power gamers, I can eat their lunch at-will with the Verbeeg. Its a nasty fight if you play the stats straight up and don't dial up or down the threat level from the opponent to match the PCs.
- The effects of the mounts don't wear off until the next extended rest. If your PCs have them in session 7 they can have them in session 8 and 9. I would print off the stat block for the players to make this work. If they still have the potion, then have horse statblocks available. Otherwise the mounted stuff will suck.
- Try and relax a bit, I know that feeling frustrated can build and it will come out at the table sending your enjoyment into a death spiral, not to mention make the players not happy either.
I hope this helps, Bryan Blumklotz
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1 year ago ::
Jan 06, 2012 - 6:10AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Oct 13, 2006
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Many of the combats are meant to be ended in non-fatal ways, but most of our players are use to the violent method so no NPC is left alive.
Are the players aware of this and just ignoring it for the sake of splattering the enemy or is it just not clear to them that it is an option?
RS: 60/60 CS: 60/60 RotS: 60/60 U:60/60 CotF: 60/60 BH: 60/60 A&E: 51/60 TFU: 53/60 LotF: 37/60 KotOR: 37/60 CW: 26/40 IE: 31/40 JA: 17/40 G@W: 7/40 DT: 7/40
Good trades with: Lily_Wan, creme_brule, suki_jedi_apprentice, Ephant_Mon
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1 year ago ::
Jan 06, 2012 - 6:26AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Jun 21, 2009
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The PCs are aware the creatures are under a spell or just doing thier job, but that has not stopped them. In the latest fight vs. the pixie, I explained that the pixie seemed to be "out of it," however in terms of telling them they needed to do X to make it surrender I did not because my party has no insight (passive) and does not make checks during combat even when not asked.
As far as modifying things on the fly...I do that, however I do not feel as if I should have to, that should have been the writer's job.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 06, 2012 - 8:18AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Apr 14, 2011
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There are a lot of good suggestions in here. While I certainly understand your troubles, it's been much the opposite for my group. I've had more fun with the role play in this season than in others, and the encounters are varied in their terrain an tactics. Roping unicorns was hilarious and fun. The last session involved a lot of checking the rules books for water and mounted combat, but at the same time, was different and enjoyable.
I have to disagree with you about modifying things, and who's job that is. I feel that as the DM, it's your role to modify things as you go. A writer can't expect his or her module to meet every table's needs because every table is different. Different players, different characters, and classes, etc. No two tables are going to approach the situation exactly the same way, as illustrated between your experience and mine.
For this season and last season, the authors have been posting comments on these forums about the sessions, their thoughts on those sessions, and even how you might change things to fit your group, so I believe even they exepct you to change things as needed. That's what makes DnD a great game. It isn't static like a book or RPG video game. You and the players creat the story as you go.
Anyway, you probably know this and love this about DnD just like I do. Don't be afraid to go off book. Think of the module as a guidlines for a story, and not a strict set of things you have to abide by. I think you'll have more fun.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 06, 2012 - 9:20AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Dec 31, 2003
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Although I share Tedluck's perspective, I empathize with your situation beowulfthehunter, and hope that alphastream's and perithoth's suggestions help somewhat. I certainly understand the desire for a module to arrive balanced and fitted ideally for all groups and playstyles... However, with so many different kinds of players with so many different playstyles, it's hard to hit the sweet spot for everyone all the time. Thus, different Encounters seasons; different strokes for different folks.
I hope things get better for you. Heck, even in the most standard of adventures there are groups that just don't mesh with them. Ever written an adventure that you liked, but the people you played with just weren't into? My advice echoes that of the other posters: if the players aren't having fun, change things up until they are. Let them kill and maim everything in their path and drown the Feywild in blood (mu-ha-ha-ha-ha).
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1 year ago ::
Jan 06, 2012 - 9:49AM
#8
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- Dragon Slayer
- If only he would apply himself
- Dammit Jim, this is Star Trek, not D&D!
Date Joined:
Jan 31, 2006
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As far as modifying things on the fly...I do that, however I do not feel as if I should have to, that should have been the writer's job.
It is always, first and foremost, a game for your table. You own it and you can do what you want with it. You can make changes beforehand, make changes during the session, and even make changes after the session.
I've either playtested or written a number of adventures that have been played by a good number of tables and I know there is no "perfect" or "getting it right". When writing an author can play it safe and reduce the breadth of experiences (primarily by sticking to very tried and true formulas), but that means both limiting the really bad tables and also limiting the really good tables. And you will still see issues. There are adventures for organized play that are widely held to be "far too easy and straightforward" that have seen posts on the forums saying the adventures caused TPKs and are unfair. The game is swingy (actually a good thing) and can play very differently.
Yes, all authors and developers can do things to reduce "the bad", but it is very hard. It is especially hard when you try to do something new. It is a price you pay for that type of creation. It pains me greatly to know that the work I do (or edit/develop) will cause a terrible experience somewhere, but it isn't avoidable entirely.
The best safeguard is playtesting, but even there we see challenges. I've playtested with my own group and then sent out my adventure to receive from very good gamers the following: "this was a TPK and completely unfair", "pretty good, we liked how it played", and "way too easy, we finished the entire adventure an hour early, here's what you can do to make it harder." I've been fortunate to come up with decent solutions to those cases, but it is indicative of how hard it is to get it right for all tables such that you don't require a DM's modification.
Follow my blog and Twitter feed with Dark Sun campaign design and DM tips! Dark Sun's Ashes of Athas Campaign is now available for home play (PM me with your e-mail to order the campaign adventures).
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1 year ago ::
Jan 06, 2012 - 3:13PM
#9
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This will be my first time DMing. I'm starting late. But I'm already modifying things to fit me and hopefully my group. I will do my best to be prepared, but I'm not sure how things will go. I'm really invested in the story and I'm modifying things here and there to suit my own tastes.
I played the last encounters session (my first time of encounters) and it was, eh. My GM is a friend, but he never seem prepared or that invested. Two of the players were his sons and they weren't invested either (I could blame it on their age, but I think 10 year olds can become invested).
I think session 0 is great. I helped steer my players to pick backgrounds that would fit the campaign. I'm trying my best to incorporate their characters' backgrounds into the sessions. I disliked how themes were incorporated in the last session (but I understand why it was so limited). I could even take a session 0.5 for my players to have time creating deep backgrounds.
I believe the thing is if you try to fit a square object into a circular hole, you will have issues. Modify the edges of the square and things will work out a bit better.
Regardless, I wish you well in the rest of the season. It's so important for you to have fun and enjoy what you're doing. If you aren't, take some time off and let the players know why. They might be having fun either. Work together and work things out. You both deserve it.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 11, 2012 - 2:00PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Oct 20, 2010
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We've lost a couple of DMs due to this module. We are losing regular players as well.
This is a terrible module if you don't have DMs committing to the whole season. If you're handed the module at 5, to run at 5:30, you're kind of screwed. Especially if you haven't read the frontmatter, or you're working from a photocopy of that night's session and don't have the full module (we have lost a copy of the module to someone moving, and a second copy to the DM disappearing-- we are down to 2 mods for 5 tables).
An example of how bad this is? I was called in to run session 5, having missed 3 and 4, but with very little prep. Any week of Neverwinter or Evard, I'd have been fine. Session 5, I mentioned the keys, and all my players gave me blank looks. I've now read the module a little more thoroughly (as well as having run more sessions) and lo and behold: the PCs are supposed to know they need the keys, but where is it ever mentioned to tell them this?!?!? It seems like the leprechauns would have been a good fit for that....? Nope. It says in the front of the book that it's important that they get the keys. But nowhere in the module that I've found does it tell the PLAYERS that it's important to get the keys.
We've been struggling for weeks with this problem of the keys. I've taken to just calling them the "plot hole keys." I've suggested to players that they should just pluck any leaves at this point, since they have no idea why the leaves are important, just that they're strangely compelled to collect them.
I'm sorry for the writers of this module, cause I am sure you put a lot of work into it. I don't know if this stuff got changed in playtest and editing or not, and I really don't care. It really shouldn't have been sent out for this program.
Would have been good as a standalone module, with about 8 more pages of information, I think.
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