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3 years ago ::
Jun 15, 2010 - 2:25AM
#121
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Date Joined:
May 17, 2006
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For those of you complaining about the difficulty of the module I have two points:
1. The DM rules.
2. The DM Guide is written with so much emphasis on playing for 'fun' and adjusting on the fly that to take ANY encounter literally goes against what the actual core rules dictate for running a game. For any problems with the encounter I refer back to my first point.
My suggestion for those DM's with TPK's is to re-read their DM Guide, get a DM Screen and take control of your game.
Store owners/game organizers who are in the business of promoting the game with the intent of selling more stuff should recognize the necessity for participants to have fun. This is directly correlated to your DM's management of the experience. Therefore if your DM is a killer, talk to him because he is potentially costing you money.
i already contacted him about and he was unpleasently suprised during the combat aswell, he will use some his DM mojo to make things more bareble for the upcoming encounters.
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3 years ago ::
Jun 15, 2010 - 8:13AM
#122
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Date Joined:
Sep 28, 2006
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I am noticing a lot of anger being directed towards jonandre in the thread, and I would like to ask people to stop right now. His opinions are just as valid as yours, and turning the forums into an echo chamber, whether it be due to the removal or the shouting down of undesired comments, does no-one any good at all.
If you think that what he is saying goes against the CoC, report the post to the ORCs. If you don't like what he is saying and are tempted to let loose your righteous wrath upon him in a forum post. DON'T!! Go for a walk, play some D&D, do something else.
mudbunny
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3 years ago ::
Jun 15, 2010 - 12:52PM
#123
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Date Joined:
Jun 25, 2007
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The difference is the most powerful character can do 24 damage if they crit on their daily. On the other hand, one of the monsters you fight in the FIRST session can do an average of 12 damage using an at will power. Don't make me go into recharge or encounter powers.
Yes, it's a tough encounter. But impossible? Obviously, it's not. I think looking at it solely based on damage output is misleading as, clearly, tactics and die rolls matter, too. Moreover, the PCs have access to powers that, while not as damaging as the monsters, are more useful. For example, the monsters can't heal themselves or party members.
Seanchai
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3 years ago ::
Jun 15, 2010 - 1:01PM
#124
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Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2005
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For those of you complaining about the difficulty of the module I have two points:
1. The DM rules.
2. The DM Guide is written with so much emphasis on playing for 'fun' and adjusting on the fly that to take ANY encounter literally goes against what the actual core rules dictate for running a game. For any problems with the encounter I refer back to my first point.
My suggestion for those DM's with TPK's is to re-read their DM Guide, get a DM Screen and take control of your game.
Store owners/game organizers who are in the business of promoting the game with the intent of selling more stuff should recognize the necessity for participants to have fun. This is directly correlated to your DM's management of the experience. Therefore if your DM is a killer, talk to him because he is potentially costing you money.
I think the point is being missed by quite a bit. I don't disagree with your #1, and agree in #2 that fun and adjusting on the fly are key elements of DMing and what help make the field better than computer games, but a DM ought to be able to take a fair number of encounters literally or at least not have to make more than minor adjustments.
This is not someone's home campaign where advice can include sending them back to the DM's guide. This encounter needs to be runable and fun where the DM arrives straight from work and only has 15 minutes to look over the encounter.
I'd think that Wizard's has a two-fold purpose with these encounters. One draw in new players by getting them to play in these "easy to try out the game sessions". Secondly bring back lapsed players (or those with no group, etc) with these schedule friendly game sessions. Wizards hopes both buy more D&D stuff and that both become more active.
It is a really poor marketing decision on Wizards part to put out a season opening encounter with such a high TPK potential.....an occurence with a huge chance to turnoff the two groups they are primarily pitching too. The fact that many DMs across the country (myself included) eyeballed the encounter and made changes to have a fun encounter are no excuse for putting out a scenario with a big, big risk of turning people off the game.
Rather than the sniping between those defending the scenario and those who think as written it never should've gone out the door. Someone from Wizards well up the food chain really needed to have posted in this thread early on with a "ya know guys that really was tougher than it should've been considering how many new players could be in the game.....we promise to do better with the next chapter and we're going to issue a few suggested changes for the remaining encounters in this chaper"
Changes? yah as I'm wondering how groups are going to make it through all five encounters with their initial set of healing surges. A good number of groups that made it through the encounter have to already be worrying about this going into week two.
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3 years ago ::
Jun 15, 2010 - 2:26PM
#125
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Date Joined:
Oct 28, 2008
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My group, Castri has 1 surge left...
My issue is solely that of a marketing, you don't interest many players by opening up tyhe season with an encounter that basically kills one of the PCs...
Unless the party cuts and runs, or the DM ignores the tactics, Castri is dead or lacks the surges to survive the 4 remaining encounters...
Mechanically, it seems Castri is better off dying... He gets his surges back...
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3 years ago ::
Jun 15, 2010 - 2:36PM
#126
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Date Joined:
Oct 26, 2008
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Mechanically, it seems Castri is better off dying... He gets his surges back...
Really? How? If he is "raised" then in theory he still has all the same lack of daily powers, lack of surges, etc as when he was killed. He might have more hit points but he hasn't taken an extended rest (no comments about sleep == death etc).
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3 years ago ::
Jun 15, 2010 - 2:39PM
#127
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Date Joined:
Aug 23, 2007
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Rydac,
I understand your complaints, but i honestly think Encounter 1-1 achieved the goals that i set it out to achieve. I haven't mentioned this before because i didn't want to deflect the criticism, but certain changes were made to the enemies from the draft DSCC i was working off of. Specifically, their damage output was significantly increased. I don't think that would have impacted my design of the encounter, however, because 5 Level 1 monsters still make a Level 1 encounter and the silt runners made the most sense in the context of what was happening in the story.
Moreover, we can debate whether or not a brutal introduction is appropriate for the DDE program, but Wizards wanted something that feels like Dark Sun. It is my opinion, but I think this feels like Dark Sun: you have to be good and lucky to survive, and sometimes that isn't even enough.
Perhaps more could have been done by Wizards or individual DMs to explain to players that Dark Sun is a brutal place; not your typical D&D setting. You may survive one session (may), two sessions, three sessions, or more. But you shouldn't be discouraged if you don't survive. Death is common in Dark Sun, and just surviving to fight another day is a reward.
I like to compare Dark Sun to Pandemic, one of our favorite board games. When I play Pandemic, i don't get turned off to the game just because i don't win every time. Sometimes we lose brutally in the first few rounds as the cards stack against us and we have new players who don't know the strategies of the game very well. But nine times out of ten, those new players aren't turned off by losing; they come back for more challenges the next time, usually immediately after!
There is another silver lining, too. If you or your DM are concerned about the resource depletion as a result of Encounter 1-1, you have the ability to make changes yourself without official Wizards intervention. Just add something in to Encounter 1-2, 1-3, or 1-4 to give the group more resources to tackle the threats in those encounters. There's literally nothing stopping you from doing so. That's what's great about D&D, DMing, and the D&D Encounters program. The story (and game) is yours; you make it happen.
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3 years ago ::
Jun 15, 2010 - 3:00PM
#128
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Date Joined:
Oct 28, 2008
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Tirianmal by your argument, he is raised back to Dead. He hasn't taken any rest, therefore, he still has the hit points he had when he died. This is "Rasie Dead" with the listed changes... mainly that it can be done between encounters and the 'death' penalty lasts only one Milestone. "The subject returns to life as if he or she had taken an extended rest." Nicholas, I have explained to the players that Athas is a brutal world, but it does nothing to entice new players to have a massacre as their intro to the game. I plan on running the adventure again using non-pre-gen characters, I'm not to worried about them, but the pre-gens couldn't handle it... Those players with few surges have half (or fewer) of their surges left, the Defenders have almost all of them left... If you are going to have a PC specifically targeted for a kill attempt, that PC needs the surges to be useful later on... Currently in my group, Castri could be killed by Spoiler:
Show
the recurring weather and/or ongoing Skill challenge
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3 years ago ::
Jun 15, 2010 - 3:36PM
#129
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Date Joined:
May 17, 2006
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Nicholas, point taken, at first i was wondering if i should return back as Castri as on paper he looked as good as dead, but then again i talked with people and me DM about it. i also reminded myself that Athas is indeed a brutal world and i have been given a serious, least say deadly, warning that this season of encounters is much less flully than the the first one. Instead of complaining and thinking about quitting i now have decided to see how far i can come with Castri, turn it into a challenge, but not without the help of the rest of the group! More than ever we need eachother, although some may not have fully realised that yet, and the first encounter is definetly an eye opener for me now.  More so than the first season this one asks more of us players and the DM, ingame and outside of the game. And to be honest i am starting to like that more and more, it sparks more RP between the players and teamwork during the combat encounters. After some grumpy days i am not looking forward to the second encounter and what challenge it offers us as a group, players AND DM. 
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3 years ago ::
Jun 15, 2010 - 3:36PM
#130
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Date Joined:
Aug 23, 2007
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Currently in my group, Castri could be killed by Spoiler:
Show
the recurring weather and/or ongoing Skill challenge
If that is the case, come up with an interesting roleplaying situation to allow Castri to recover some lost hit points and/or spent healing surges. There's a perfect opportunity for such an interaction in Session 2!
Make the story your own.
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