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Feb 15, 2013 -- 10:36AM, lordpoee wrote:

Feb 15, 2013 -- 2:00AM, Baalbamoth wrote:

The Role of the DM

I was watching a debate about old school vs new school gaming, one thing that came up I wasn’t aware of, was that in 4e there were two areas where it mentioned that having a DM was not necessary. First in the DMG there was a section about using random encounters and rewards to dungeon crawl, another was in the last section of the PH 3 (?) where it said that if you just get a module you don’t really need a DM (can anyone confirm?) but the bottom line for me is, (assuming this is true) they created a game where if you have the right supplements a DM is completely unnecessary.  (this is not meant as a slight to 4e, just an observation)

I hope this IS NOT a design goal for 5^th ed. To me most of the fun of being a DM is creating the world, the NPCs, the story and plots, and all of that is central on having me as a DM run the players through those plots, or act those NPC roles with the players. IMHO To have a real TTRPG you MUST have a DM. If you create a game where a DM is completely unnecessary in essence you’ve changed a role-playing game into a boardgame.  

If you see your job as a DM as doing nothing but reading what it says out of the pre-written module, move and roll for the monsters, and play your NPC as a character in the party, to me your not really DM-ing, your half playing the game and sort of half DM-ing.

Your not doing work creating anything, your responses to the characters as an NPC are already written down (except for a tiny bit of improv when the characters say or ask something unexpected) your not having to balance or create encounters, or plan out what rewards will be available and really think about how the players will utilize them. The rules are so well written, there is never a need to interpret them. This isn’t DM-ing to me, its wargaming.

Sure I’ve heard the other arguments, we don’t have time to do that, we have lives and facebook and jobs kids cars blah.. we cant possibly prepare for two hours to run a four hour game… aint nobody got time for that… in my mind then you really don’t have time to run an RPG, and shouldn’t be DM-ing.

I’ve also heard the argument “we have fun doing this, shut up and let us have our fun you damn one true wayist” fair enough, but that’s also going to be my first rule of finding a game, asking a DM “are you really a player just running a pre-scripted game from an AP or are you actually going to DM?”

To me this is the essence of the difference between old school and new school gaming.   

I don't know what the rol of the DM is anymore man, there was a time when people gathered around the table characters in hand and awaited the DM's word with anticipation, eager to find out what adventure would be laid before them this week, what part they would play, what plot or secret would be uncovered.

Now the DM is treated like a referee for combat to divvy up the turns and count the rounds, the power is in the book. Even 3rd edition seemed to hint at this by suggesting that the DM should whever possible use the guidelines.

As for me the DM is the software behind the game, the final adjudication, a weaver.

I sat down with a 3E group in Wyoming once, they had figurines and dice and cool maps but when I start my action with "My character says..." they gave me a long, strange look. They were not role-players....but war gamers. Every character was designed around the highest damage output, Savings throws, armor classes and feats to harden areas of weakness. Not my cup o' tea.

Once when I was playing AD&D 2nd Edition, I earned a Intelligent +2 Vorpal Long Sword. May have been the single best item I've ever earned in AD&D. Jim Peterson or Shawn Webb(Disherllagh)....if your out there, you know who you are. Send me a PM will ya!

the real difference between new and old-school gaming seems to be this self-imagined sense of elitism that pervades nearly every post i've seen you make.
- trebor_rjf

What is Elitism precisely? Exclusiveness? Limited Inclusion? Or perhaps those that REALLY no what they are talking about?
I am an old-school DM (20 years) but I do not consider myself Elite. Gary Gygax, Dave Arneson, Zeb Cook, Chris Perkins. THOSE are elite.

By classifying ANYONE as Elite...or not, you are by your own actions participating in a form of Elitsm. "This group or person is not as good as me because I so (do not) participate in [insert behavior here]"

So let's not go throwing names, classifications and archetypes. Classifications are for core books....not Forums.

Elitisim is the tone projected by those advocating THE ONE TRUE WAY™! 

Here's the facts  whatever the publisher of D&D prints is what D&D is. Whatever you or I do with the rules is our business. Our interpretation, patching, discarding, or other permutations are our rules. They are not right nor wrong. They may be incompatible but frankly how other people play or dm is no one's business. There is no objective standard aside from RAW to judge by.

This idea that the ONE TRUE WAY™ is wargaming, talking funny, or w/e other feature predominated at your group is really the ONE TRUE WAY™  ought to disappear amongst the older more educated people. It's unbecoming.