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4 months ago ::
Jan 31, 2013 - 7:47PM
#21
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Date Joined:
Aug 15, 2011
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when a level drain occurs its not oh your forgetting stuff. the being that uses it is drawing your life force and unraveling who you are. but lola you always comment on oh thats dumb and shouldnt be included with very little on the solution side of things
If you lose a level, you lose skill and combat abilities, feats, spells ... so, yes, you forgot stuff. I don't see any connection between 'loss of life force' and 'amnesia'.
I already gave my solution: Throw it out. It's a terrible, unfun, annoying mechanic that makes no sense.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 31, 2013 - 7:51PM
#22
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just because something dosent make sense to you dosent mean its bad, just because its unfun for you dosent mean it dosent have a place at the table, and just because something is annoying dosent mean it is for everyone. if you are going to rip apart the game and throw rules out you dont like anyway, why not include them for those that do want them
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4 months ago ::
Jan 31, 2013 - 7:54PM
#23
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just because something dosent make sense to you dosent mean its bad, just because its unfun for you dosent mean it dosent have a place at the table, and just because something is annoying dosent mean it is for everyone. if you are going to rip apart the game and throw rules out you dont like anyway, why not include them for those that do want them
That's why I feel that making them options works the best. It preserves the rules for those who want them, but it doesn't mess with the encounter designs of people who don't want them.
Why Mechanics-Alignment Integration is Bad
Show
so why even play a fighter if you can play the paladin the exact same way behaviorally and get added power to boot. "Paladin" is about accepting better game-enhancing mechanics at the price of more rigid in game behavior.
Really? So it goes something like this?
Fighter: "I want to be a paladin."
NPC: "Really?"
Fighter: "Yes."
NPC: "Very well." Starts reading from a holy book while still in-character "Do you accept having to choose and stick to the lawful good alignment, eventhough neither of us actually knows that it exists or what it is?"
Fighter: "I do."
NPC: "Do you reject good game balance because you accidentally rolled a high Charisma?"
Fighter: "What?"
NPC: "I don't know what it means either."
Fighter: "Oh. Umm, ok I do."
NPC: "In the name of all that is metagamey and broken, accept these better game enhancing mechanics."
Fighter: "These what?"
NPC: "Just get out there and try to fulfill a million different people's notion of good while not violating and part of any of them."
So the system is designed such that every single hit needs to be described to avoid confusion? Here's a scenario. The players are nudists, everybody in the world are nudists, it's not weird, it's totally normal in this land. They are naked and they fight drakes taking damage throughout, but healing up with surges. Later they meet the guy who raised the drakes.
Part 1: I didn't describe any of the hits. What does he see?
Part 2: Lets say I described the drakes as biting the players, yet they healed up. What does he see?
D20 Modern Toon PC Race.
Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 31, 2013 - 7:57PM
#24
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i would be fine with that but most people on this site think that it shouldnt be included at all like the person who keeps saying the same thing and uses straw man alot
Moderated by
ORC_Arjac
on Jan 31, 2013 - 08:15PM
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4 months ago ::
Jan 31, 2013 - 8:02PM
#25
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i would be fine with that but most people on this site think that it shouldnt be included at all like that bronie wierdo who keeps saying the same thing and uses straw man alot
Really? Most people? Where are the numbers to back that up? I mean there are certainly people who may feel that way, just like there may be people who feel that SoD and level drain have to be included or people aren't playing right, but I can't really say either side has enough posters to count as "most people."
Why Mechanics-Alignment Integration is Bad
Show
so why even play a fighter if you can play the paladin the exact same way behaviorally and get added power to boot. "Paladin" is about accepting better game-enhancing mechanics at the price of more rigid in game behavior.
Really? So it goes something like this?
Fighter: "I want to be a paladin."
NPC: "Really?"
Fighter: "Yes."
NPC: "Very well." Starts reading from a holy book while still in-character "Do you accept having to choose and stick to the lawful good alignment, eventhough neither of us actually knows that it exists or what it is?"
Fighter: "I do."
NPC: "Do you reject good game balance because you accidentally rolled a high Charisma?"
Fighter: "What?"
NPC: "I don't know what it means either."
Fighter: "Oh. Umm, ok I do."
NPC: "In the name of all that is metagamey and broken, accept these better game enhancing mechanics."
Fighter: "These what?"
NPC: "Just get out there and try to fulfill a million different people's notion of good while not violating and part of any of them."
So the system is designed such that every single hit needs to be described to avoid confusion? Here's a scenario. The players are nudists, everybody in the world are nudists, it's not weird, it's totally normal in this land. They are naked and they fight drakes taking damage throughout, but healing up with surges. Later they meet the guy who raised the drakes.
Part 1: I didn't describe any of the hits. What does he see?
Part 2: Lets say I described the drakes as biting the players, yet they healed up. What does he see?
D20 Modern Toon PC Race.
Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 31, 2013 - 8:03PM
#26
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Date Joined:
Aug 15, 2011
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i would be fine with that but most people on this site think that it shouldnt be included at all like that bronie wierdo who keeps saying the same thing and uses straw man alot
Nice Ad Hominem attack.
Done with you now.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 31, 2013 - 8:05PM
#27
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good im fine with that my tears are already dry
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4 months ago ::
Jan 31, 2013 - 8:08PM
#28
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Date Joined:
Sep 26, 2011
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Please, let's stay constructive and on topic and avoid ad hominem, shall we?
I like the idea of a generic "aged" condition, and I don't think it's much more specific than e.g. being "paralized". Thing is, while it definitely works as a ability-related descriptor, as well as a general penalty for playing an "old" character, it doesn't adress standard "magical aging" (like the possible drawback of the Potion of Longevity, which I also suggested as a potential penalty for casting permament Wishes).
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4 months ago ::
Jan 31, 2013 - 8:22PM
#29
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Date Joined:
Jul 18, 2007
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Please, let's stay constructive and on topic and avoid ad hominem, shall we?
Never happen.
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4 months ago ::
Feb 01, 2013 - 2:20AM
#30
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Date Joined:
Mar 26, 2008
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Re: Level drain. In my opinion attacks should read "Energy drain: The attack deals an additional 3d6 HP damage. Con save negates, DC 17." In the appendix there would be an optional rule "Energy Drain: Energy drain attacks cause PCs to lose levels rather than take HP damage. They lose one negative level per damage die rolled. This can be regained through the spell Restoration, limited wish, wish, or by undergoing an important quest for a deity." I like the idea of a generic "aged" condition, and I don't think it's much more specific than e.g. being "paralized". Thing is, while it definitely works as a ability-related descriptor, as well as a general penalty for playing an "old" character, it doesn't adress standard "magical aging" (like the possible drawback of the Potion of Longevity, which I also suggested as a potential penalty for casting permament Wishes).
IMO it should be an optional flavour rule that DMs can use if they so desire. It should NOT be part of the balancing factor in determining the benefits of the spell. For example you could have a sidebar that says"An optional rule for wish is to cause the caster to age X number of years. This can be in place of losing the ability to cast spells."
Having the aging factor is (IMO) crucial to explain why powerful wizards don't just spam wish all year long to make themselves the ultimate ruler over everyone. Mwahahaha. However that doesn't come into play for PCs. The longest a campaign is likely to run is 5 ig years. And that's a long and epic campaign. Many of them finish within 12 ig months. As such, having the age factor exist to stop PCs from spamming it is a non-issue.
Also does anyone else feel like the manifestation of a wish spell should be a devil appearing in front of you with a contract for you to sign? The whole "be careful what you wish for" angle just screams Asmodeus to me. And it's not a cleric spell. It's a wizard only spell. Done! In my campaigns wish spells summon devils who force you to sign the contract. That should keep the PCs wary of casting it too many times. "What do you get out of this exactly?" "Oh well. Upon your death you'll be subjected to voluntary servitude for a number of years equal to your natural lifespan adjusted for inflation at the rate of 1.75% p.a. subject to clause i subsection j if you just read over here..." (flips through several dozen pages to point out the relevant clause which has been written in incomprehensible legalese."
Also can you imagine the look upon the PCs face when they cast wish and a devil appears and says "Oh I'm sorry. Your soul is actually worthless to us. You see your father already promised the soul of his firstborn to us in return for all of the riches your family has." That can start a whole series of quests where the PCs have to regain the soul of their comrade before he dies! Devil assassins start chasing the PCs as they try to kill the person so as to stop him from regaining his soul and also to allow him to start serving Asmodeus.
Oh! You can also have satanic cults who worship Asmodeus. He doesn't grant them spells or eternal life. But if they give him enough souls then he grants them the benefit of a wish spell. Think of it as a pyramid scheme but with black robes and drunken orgies (because lets be honest. Cults always need drunken orgies). It'd go something like "look you buy in with your soul. You join our club, you get influence and power. If you bring in 20 more recruits then you get a wish spell and you can wish to get your soul back. Then if you bring in another 20 recruits you can get a second wish spell and then you can wish for anything you like. How many cousins do you have? 10? Look! You're already halfway to getting your first wish spell. And you're young. You'll have PLENTY of time to recruit people. It's easy! Now just sign this contract here."
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