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4 months ago ::
Jan 31, 2013 - 4:16PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Sep 26, 2011
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Longevity and unnatural aging are both popular tropes in mythology and fiction, yet currently it is noticeably absent from D&D Next. Granted, there is the revised, rare Potion of Longevity, and Timeless Body special ability makes a character "immune to magical aging". However, besides the Potion of Longevity, there is no chance to actually be "magically aged" at the moment, even though such effects wouldn't be something new in D&D system.
I'd like to see a reintroduction of magical aging - maybe not in such an overwhelming manner as it was e.g. in AD&D 2nd Edition, where drinking a Potion of Speed would age a character one year... or perhaps in just the same way! Specifically, I'd like to see the Wish spell description changed. Even though, as far as I know, the true Wish never had aging as a side-effect (unlike the Limited Wish), in D&D Next, due to its ability to unerringly create a rare magic item (say, a Potion of Longevity?) or a mundane object worth as much as 25000 gp each and every day without any real consequences, in my opinion it needs some sort of possibly long-term cost, and magical aging seems perfect for that role.
I understand that high-level characters are supposed to be virtually supernatural, living legends (even though still technically mortal), and that's great. Even so, with implemented mechanic I can't help but imagine Asmodeus and other infernal lords asking powerful wizards for favors, and not the other way around... After all, 17+ level wizards can cast Wish day after day, whereas Asmodeus and his pit fiends can only do so once per year!
To make magical aging more common in games, yet a bit easier to bear (especially should it be caused by common spells, like Haste, or certain monsters - especially undeads and fiends), Greater Restoration could also provide a minor rejuvenation effect. All suggested changes should make Wish less of a "setting-breaker", while also making the Timeless Body ability something actually noticeable without the need to speed-up the campaign.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 31, 2013 - 4:33PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Aug 15, 2011
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Aging doesn't even remotely counter that kind of stuff. The solution to 'setting-breaking' spells and effects is simply not to include them.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 31, 2013 - 4:34PM
#3
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Aging doesn't even remotely counter that kind of stuff. The solution to 'setting-breaking' spells and effects is simply not to include them.
Or to at least label them, or put them in a sidebar, or put warnings in the DMG about them.
Why Mechanics-Alignment Integration is Bad
Show
so why even play a fighter if you can play the paladin the exact same way behaviorally and get added power to boot. "Paladin" is about accepting better game-enhancing mechanics at the price of more rigid in game behavior.
Really? So it goes something like this?
Fighter: "I want to be a paladin."
NPC: "Really?"
Fighter: "Yes."
NPC: "Very well." Starts reading from a holy book while still in-character "Do you accept having to choose and stick to the lawful good alignment, eventhough neither of us actually knows that it exists or what it is?"
Fighter: "I do."
NPC: "Do you reject good game balance because you accidentally rolled a high Charisma?"
Fighter: "What?"
NPC: "I don't know what it means either."
Fighter: "Oh. Umm, ok I do."
NPC: "In the name of all that is metagamey and broken, accept these better game enhancing mechanics."
Fighter: "These what?"
NPC: "Just get out there and try to fulfill a million different people's notion of good while not violating and part of any of them."
So the system is designed such that every single hit needs to be described to avoid confusion? Here's a scenario. The players are nudists, everybody in the world are nudists, it's not weird, it's totally normal in this land. They are naked and they fight drakes taking damage throughout, but healing up with surges. Later they meet the guy who raised the drakes.
Part 1: I didn't describe any of the hits. What does he see?
Part 2: Lets say I described the drakes as biting the players, yet they healed up. What does he see?
D20 Modern Toon PC Race.
Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 31, 2013 - 4:46PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Sep 26, 2011
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Fair enough; still, it potentially adds a bit depth to the game - if not setting-wise, as in: "powerful wizards fear death above everything else, and often devote most of their lives to a constant search for immortality, all the while being tempted by the lichdom and fiendish promises", then at least at the strategy level, with "character's age" as yet another, high-tier resource to manage, similarly to food and supplies.
I very much like the idea of making it an option discussed closely in the referee's guide, though, along with other potential traps awaiting for the campaign-makers.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 31, 2013 - 4:50PM
#5
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Unnatural aging can be cool, but it really can't be claimed to balance anything becuase of the long-lived races. One of the problem of unnatural aging in D&D has always been that elves and such races don't get aged propotional to the way humans do; instead, they get hit with the same number of years. Also, unnatural agining is a lot like requiring animal or human sacrifice to cast spells. It's thematically very cool, but serves as a very poor way to attempt to offset the power of spells.
Why Mechanics-Alignment Integration is Bad
Show
so why even play a fighter if you can play the paladin the exact same way behaviorally and get added power to boot. "Paladin" is about accepting better game-enhancing mechanics at the price of more rigid in game behavior.
Really? So it goes something like this?
Fighter: "I want to be a paladin."
NPC: "Really?"
Fighter: "Yes."
NPC: "Very well." Starts reading from a holy book while still in-character "Do you accept having to choose and stick to the lawful good alignment, eventhough neither of us actually knows that it exists or what it is?"
Fighter: "I do."
NPC: "Do you reject good game balance because you accidentally rolled a high Charisma?"
Fighter: "What?"
NPC: "I don't know what it means either."
Fighter: "Oh. Umm, ok I do."
NPC: "In the name of all that is metagamey and broken, accept these better game enhancing mechanics."
Fighter: "These what?"
NPC: "Just get out there and try to fulfill a million different people's notion of good while not violating and part of any of them."
So the system is designed such that every single hit needs to be described to avoid confusion? Here's a scenario. The players are nudists, everybody in the world are nudists, it's not weird, it's totally normal in this land. They are naked and they fight drakes taking damage throughout, but healing up with surges. Later they meet the guy who raised the drakes.
Part 1: I didn't describe any of the hits. What does he see?
Part 2: Lets say I described the drakes as biting the players, yet they healed up. What does he see?
D20 Modern Toon PC Race.
Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 31, 2013 - 4:57PM
#6
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Date Joined:
Aug 15, 2011
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Unnatural aging can be cool, but it really can't be claimed to balance anything becuase of the long-lived races. One of the problem of unnatural aging in D&D has always been that elves and such races don't get aged propotional to the way humans do; instead, they get hit with the same number of years. Also, unnatural agining is a lot like requiring animal or human sacrifice to cast spells. It's thematically very cool, but serves as a very poor way to attempt to offset the power of spells.
Back when I cared, I houseruled that the aging was multiplied by a factor based on the race's lifespan. A human might age 5 years, but an elf would age 50 or 100 or whatever.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 31, 2013 - 4:58PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Aug 15, 2011
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resource to manage, similarly to food and supplies.
Yeah ... I don't know anybody who actually wants to mess around with tracking rations and ammo anymore.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 31, 2013 - 5:04PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Jul 18, 2007
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Yeah ... I don't know anybody who actually wants to mess around with tracking rations and ammo anymore.
Yeh...never have really. The couple of times we played dark sun we didn't even track water.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 31, 2013 - 5:23PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Sep 26, 2011
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I agree that keeping track of recources isn't for everyone and shouldn't be required. It certainly isn't something one would want to see in a "superheroic" campaign styled after 4th Edition. On the other hand, it should be supported as a basis for oldschool exploration-oriented games (along with rules for encumbrance, etc., as unnecessary in certain games as, say, attack of opportunity and disengaging is in light-on-combat campaigns), appealing to retrogamers and regular simulationists, even if for different reasons.
Just a sidenote: I believe at least in the revised 2e AD&D from 1995, casting Limited Wish aged the caster 1 year/100 years of regular lifespan. However, Haste-related aging wasn't scalled. Truth be told, keeping Potions of Longevity as is and making them scale both have its merrits. For one thing, limiting them to +/-1d6+6 at a time years makes them much more of a "human thing".
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4 months ago ::
Jan 31, 2013 - 6:40PM
#10
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they should include not only magical aging but also level draining as part of the rules and if people dont want to use it then they dont have too. these things are part of monster attacks and shouldnt be excluded
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