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Switch to Forum Live View Unnatural aging in D&D and why it is needed
4 months ago  ::  Feb 09, 2013 - 9:00PM #51
MeCorva
Date Joined: Jun 6, 2008
Posts: 769
Zsu - I reread your posts to see how I misunderstood you, and looking at them again, I did miss your point.   I agree that your system you proposed shows promise.   I think we'd need to figure out how to un-age people in an interesting way - if potions are too available, then the sting and fear that people should have for aging unnaturally will go away.  I mean, it's hard to have the wight be scary if everyone had a bandoleer of potions.
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4 months ago  ::  Feb 10, 2013 - 8:51AM #52
ZsuEtAm
Date Joined: Sep 26, 2011
Posts: 25
Thank you, MeCorva.

It looks like there are at least two things to figure out:
  1. Specific age categories and associated modifiers.
  2. How to rejuvenate aged characters in a way that would be both interesting and available without making magical aging irrelevant.

I consulted the D&D 3rd Edition and d20 Modern rules, which use the following age categories (related ability scores changes in parentheses):
  • Child (-3 Str and Con, -1 Dex, Int, Wis, and Cha; reduced speed [and size?])
  • Adult (no modifiers, standard character - 12-year old humans are considered "young adults" already)
  • Middle Age (-1 Str, Con, and Dex, +1 Int, Wis, and Cha)
  • Old (-3 Str, Con, and Dex, +2 Int, Wis, and Cha)
  • Venerable (-6 Str, Con, and Dex, +3 Int, Wis, and Cha [and reduced speed?])

Note that for each age category I listed total modifiers, and not cumulative effects as described in d20 System. No ability can be decreased below 3 or increased above 20, at least not for standard characters, and mental abilities (Int, Wis, Cha) remain unaffected by magical aging.


That's one way to put it. It's universal (same abilities are used in all editions of the game, even if they are listed in different order), descriptive (attractive to simulationists), and quite simple. It also has the added benefit of making game playable with younger or older characters.


But it can be simpler. What if each age category simply resulted in a bonus or a penalty to the skill checks? -1, -2 or +1. Or it can be something entirely different - let's discuss an alternative system for a moment.


The_Jester suggested making "aged" a condition. We have to remember that conditions can't be stacked, so there should be just two, without any steps: aged and rejuvenated. In this variant normal aging process is purely aesthetic and doesn't affect the character's mechanic. On the other hand, a character's age can be magically changed, which generally inflicts some penalties. Those two conditions cannot be applied to a single character at the same time. Rejuvenating an aged character (or vice versa) would return him or her to the standard age.


It's a truly abstract solution, which main advantage - the simplicity - is also its biggest disadvantage. It either won't address the concept of an elder character seeking eternal youth, and can't be successfully used with game effects like the Potion of Longevity, or it'll make rejuvenation something mostly or solely beneficial. I think I'd rather go with the first option and use age categories with modified ability scores instead of simplified conditions.



As for the second problem, I see it as something mostly campaign (DM)-dependant. Potion of Longevity is described as "rare" in the playtest packet, and it's the only item in the entire game which can rejuvenate a character. Besides, drinking it always involves a risk of reversed effect. So far nothing suggests that even high-level characters will be able to easily buy and hoard any magic items, and especially not those in "rare" and higher categories. The only way to unerringly obtain a single vial of the elixir is to cast a Wish spell, which requires an 17+ level character or a literal deal with the devil. If my suggestion to make aging a side-effect of the Wish spell on the caster is followed, them it'll be a suboptimal solution at best, as it'll be a chance of rejuvenation for someone at the price of one own's life.


Other game effects can be introduced as well - for example, a high-level (7+) necromancy spell which would age the target while rejuvenating the caster (or another character?) on a failed saving throw. In Pathfinder RPG, there is an Age Resistance spell, which doesn't rejuvenate the character, but lets him or her ignore the detrimental physical effects of aging (natural or magical) for one day. To make it something more common, Restoration clerical spell can affect the magical aging, but at least for me it's a bit too much. As unnatural aging is supposed to be optional and uncommon anyway, I think it should stay connected with the Potion of Longevity. If it seems too much, maybe it could become a "legendary" magical item, and find a "rare" replacement in an Elixir of Youth, which effects would wear off over time.

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4 months ago  ::  Feb 10, 2013 - 9:25AM #53
Uchawi
Date Joined: Jun 22, 2010
Posts: 1,753
I would really like to move away from the loss of levels or attrributes, so aging could be the loss of hit dice for healing purposes, i.e. you are unable to recover as quickly. For the opposite, i.e. being a child, you overall hit dice may be reduced by a die value, so in theory a wizard could drop down to d4. The above addresses the physical. I am not sure there is a good system for the mental aspect, but skill modifiers seem appropriate.  
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4 months ago  ::  Feb 10, 2013 - 11:10AM #54
MeCorva
Date Joined: Jun 6, 2008
Posts: 769
I don't love the modern rules you suggested.  If the point of unnatural aging is to serve as a deterant and a frightening side effect, it shouldn't give bonuses to certain classes.   

Unnatural aging is so strange it should give -1 to each attribute/age class.   That serves as a deterant. 

Your points about potions were good, but might be better as rituals.  That makes it more clear it should be an obscure quest, IMHO
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4 months ago  ::  Feb 10, 2013 - 4:49PM #55
ZsuEtAm
Date Joined: Sep 26, 2011
Posts: 25
As I stated earlier, positive modifiers should be applied only for natural aging - it will never be beneficial. Excuse me if I made myself unclear. I'll edit my previous post to avoid further confusion.
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