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5 months ago ::
Jan 29, 2013 - 8:53AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Aug 24, 2012
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From the Level 1: Rogue Scheme description:
Artful Dodger: When a creature makes a melee or ranged attack against you, you can use a reaction to impose disadvantage on the attack roll.
This seems awfully powerful for a level one character. Am in understanding this correctly? Every level one Rogue automatically forces disadvantage on one enemy's attack roll every round?
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5 months ago ::
Jan 29, 2013 - 9:08AM
#2
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Every rogue with that scheme (Artful Dodger) has that ability. Have been playing with this ability and it isn't nearly as powerful as it apears on paper.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 30, 2013 - 5:42AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Oct 30, 2012
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Yup it is very powerful. I believe the maths is that a reroll is equivalent to a +4 bonus? If this is the case then a Rake Rogue with a Mithril shirt, two weapon defense and Artful dodger has the best effective AC in the game, silly knights with their plate armour and shield. In any case it makes you very difficult to critical going from a 1 in 20 to a 1 in 400 chance as both rolls are required to be a 20.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 30, 2013 - 5:51AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Aug 24, 2012
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Perhaps other DMs are running larger encounters where multiple attacks are coming at PCs each round, but in most of mine, it's one-on-one. The monsters are more likely to gang up on the tank or the flashy cleric, leaving the rogue free to run around and, with only one attacker per round, rarely get touched.
I might have to modify this for my game. If your math is right and a reroll is equal to +4, then Artful Dodger should convey +2 to AC for the first attack each round.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 30, 2013 - 10:41AM
#5
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If I remember what I've read in other posts correctly, the penalty disadvantage grants ranges from -1 to -5 depending on how high the monster needs to roll to hit the rogue. If it needs an average roll, such as an 11, the penalty will be closer to -5. If it needs a high or low roll, the penalty will be closer to -1.
I haven't seen artful dodger in play, but on paper, it looks thematically appropriate and reasonable to me. It might seem strong, especially for rogues that are smart enough to avoid situations where the enemy can gang up on them and lucky enough to avoid enemies with multiple attacks. However, it requires the rogue to give up sneak attack, which is a powerful ability, and their reaction, which they could use for opportunity attacks, feats like Defensive Ward, and skill tricks.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 30, 2013 - 10:54AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Aug 24, 2012
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I hadn't thought about the loss of sneak attack, that's a good leveler. I tried my hand at statistical analysis, using AnyDice.
Rolling 1d20:
Chance of critical failure: 5% Chance of critical success: 5% Mean result: 10.5
Rolling 1d20 +4:
Chance of critical failure: 5% Chance of critical success: 5% Mean result: 14.5 Rolling 2d20, keeping highest (Advantage):
Chance of critical failure: .25%
Chance of critical success: 10%
Mean result: 13.825
Rolling 2d20, keeping lowest (Disadvantage):
Chance of critical failure: 10%
Chance of critical success: .25%
Mean result: 7.175
So Artful Dodger reduces the enemies attack roll from 10.5 to 7.175, allowing for over 3 points less AC coverage. But more powerfully, the chances for that enemy to achieve a critical hit on the Rogue goes from 5% to .25%.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 30, 2013 - 11:43AM
#7
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Date Joined:
May 12, 2009
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In a recent playtest session we weren't sure if you can use it after the roll is called or if you have to declare you're using Artful Dodger before knowing the result of the attack roll. The former is more of a gamble.
Yan
Montréal, Canada
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5 months ago ::
Jan 30, 2013 - 11:47AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Jul 11, 2012
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I have artful dodge on my rogue, and I thought it was going to be extremely helpful until we ran into enemies that could attack multiple times per round. It's not as overpowered as it sounds since you can only use it once per round and miss out on sneak attack/assassinate.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 30, 2013 - 11:50AM
#9
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Date Joined:
Aug 24, 2012
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Yeah, I am feeling better about the power of this maneuver.
Plaguescarred - I agree that applying your dodge before the enemy rolls is more interesting and more of a gamble, but you would have to be consistent across classes. Like fighters would have to declare their intention to use Deadly Strike before rolling any damage, and their intent to Parry before taking damage.
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