|
5 months ago ::
Jan 17, 2013 - 10:54AM
#1
|
Date Joined:
Mar 17, 2009
|
A request for clarification:
Under Cleric class features, there is the following entry: "You can cast any spell you have prepared as a ritual" (p. 3)
This syntax of this sentance is confusing. Does it mean
1) you can take any spell you have prepared and cast it as ritual? Or
2) you can take any ritual you have prepared and cast it as a spell?
The first meaning seems non-sensical. Why would you willingly take longer to cast something you could cast immediately. The second meaning is odd, since the "How to Play" document indicates that rituals are not prepared in advance. In fact, it states "the advantage of casting a spell as a ritual is that you do not have to prepare the spell ahead of time" (p. 24).
Or is this entry simply an announcement of the fact that Clerics can cast rituals. If that's it, then the entry is very badly worded; needlessly complicated.
Cheers,
|
|
|
|
5 months ago ::
Jan 17, 2013 - 11:29AM
#2
|
Date Joined:
Oct 18, 2009
|
As I understand it (but can't confirm anywhere in the docs), the real benefit of casting rituals is that they don't spend spell slots. The "How to Play" wording is probably from some old version of the preparing/slots mechanic that wasn't fixed yet. Only wizards that select the "Scholarly Wizardry" tradition can cast rituals without preparing the spell version beforehand (and they still need to have the spell in their spellbook). Clerics and wizards of the other two traditions must prepare the spell as normal, and then can cast the normal way (one action, spends spell slot) or as a ritual (takes 10min to 1h to cast, don't spend the slot).
[<o>]
|
|
|
|
5 months ago ::
Jan 17, 2013 - 1:21PM
#3
|
Date Joined:
Mar 11, 2008
|
After re-reading the How to Play Document, I think that it is meant to cost a spell slot, but you don't need to prepare it in advance. The section in the Classes appear to be from an old version. Either way they meant it to be, it is too confusing currently to use. I made a note of it in the last survey, so hopefully it will be clear next time.
|
|
|
|
5 months ago ::
Jan 17, 2013 - 2:55PM
#4
|
Date Joined:
May 24, 2012
|
My take on it is; if you look under spells, there are certain spells that are able to be cast as rituals. In the discription the have the Ritual heading, and explains that they can be cast such a way. Meaning that you do not have to prepare these spells in advance, they can be cast at anytime out of combat by following the ritual description. Augury for example has it : Ritual: You can cast this spell as a ritual by
spending at least 10 minutes chanting entreaties
to spirits of fate and fortune and using special
material components, such as incense.
How to play page 22 Rituals
A ritual is a version of a spell that takes longer to
cast and sometimes requires special materials to
complete. The advantage of casting a spell as a
ritual is that you do not have to prepare the spell
ahead of time. The drawback is that completing a
ritual takes several minutes, if not hours.
Prerequisite: You cannot use a spell as a
ritual unless you have a special ability or a class
feature that lets you do so.
Time: Performing a ritual takes more time
than simply casting a spell. Each ritual specifies
the time needed to complete it. During this time,
you can do nothing but work on the ritual. As
with casting a spell, you need to be able to speak
and move a hand in order to perform a ritual.
Material Components: To complete certain
rituals, you must expend material components as
fuel for the magic you have gathered and shaped.
When you complete the ritual and its effects
|
|
|
|
5 months ago ::
Jan 17, 2013 - 5:02PM
#5
|
|
|
I assumed that you had to prepare rituals but didn't have to spend a spell slot to cast them. That at least makes a lot more sense.
The problem is that clerics don't have to learn their spells via a spellbook; they have instant access to every cleric spell of a level they can cast. The only restriction is which spells they prepare that day. So if rituals don't have to be prepared, then the second a cleric turns level 7 he has access to EVERY 4th level cleric ritual, which might cause option paralysis.
|
|
|
|
5 months ago ::
Jan 17, 2013 - 5:56PM
#6
|
Date Joined:
Jun 28, 2006
|
I assumed that you had to prepare rituals but didn't have to spend a spell slot to cast them. That at least makes a lot more sense.
The problem is that clerics don't have to learn their spells via a spellbook; they have instant access to every cleric spell of a level they can cast. The only restriction is which spells they prepare that day. So if rituals don't have to be prepared, then the second a cleric turns level 7 he has access to EVERY 4th level cleric ritual, which might cause option paralysis.
This is why I think clerics should have a prayerbook that works like a wizard's spellbook, but only for ritual spells. That would give them a way to use rituals without preparation, but still be balanced.
|
|
|
|
5 months ago ::
Jan 18, 2013 - 1:20AM
#7
|
Date Joined:
Nov 21, 2012
|
I always thought rituals were meant to not use a spell slot. Spell slots are a much more valuable resource than preparation slots, since prepared spells don't go away when you use them, but spell slots do. Why bother spending an hour casting the spell just to avoid preparing it, when it still costs a precious spell slot?
Also, the Cleric doesn't get access to every spell on their spell list as a ritual. Not every spell has a ritual.
|
|
|
|
5 months ago ::
Jan 18, 2013 - 7:52AM
#8
|
Date Joined:
Dec 19, 2012
|
I agree, my thought was also that they were not using a spell slot. If you have to use a spell slot casting as a ritual would lose its appeal to me and a lot of its value.
By not taking a spell slot I can use my spells to focus on Damage and Utility vs saving spell slots for identify spells (just as an example).
PS. I realize this thread is about clerics, but I'm assuming the ritual feature will work similarly between wizards and clerics.
|
|
|
|
5 months ago ::
Jan 18, 2013 - 9:12AM
#9
|
Date Joined:
Apr 12, 2004
|
Based on what the rules say:
1) A cleric (or non-scholar wizard) can only cast a ritual version of a spell he has prepared
2) It uses a spell slot when he does.
Maybe there is a mistake, but several spells work differently when cast as a ritual. It may be that they want clerics to be able to use those alternate effects if they want.
|
|
|
|
5 months ago ::
Jan 18, 2013 - 10:19AM
#10
|
Date Joined:
Jan 21, 2004
|
I understand that the gp cost of rituals in 4e was not felt to be a balancing issue but in our campaigns we never felt that rituals overshadowed anything. That might be because we did not purchase them tactically, we just dished them out based on the pre-4e versions of our PCs.
I don't think the design of rituals is very good in 5e yet. Some of the rituals seem to equate to auto-sucess at tasks and I thought the enhanced skill rolls of 4e seemed far more sensible (although only have a point if there is a cost beyond spending time to cast rituals). Using up a spell slot seems counter-intuitive and won't leave any room for ritual casters from other classes to overcome the point of rituals in the first place. There is nothing wrong with requiring clerics to have ritual versions of spells in a ritual book and limiting the number of rituals they can learn by reference to their level and wisdom. Or have core rituals that all clerics can use and allow them limited access to a deity-specific list of other rituals.
I also don't have an issue with class-specific rituals but I think that access to batches of related rituals should be purchasable with feats so that we can go back to having Agravaan, our intelligent knight who pores over ancient texts trying to decipher prophecies without him having to take high levels in wizard or cleric to use his knowledge.
So my 2gp worth is to say keep some kind of cost, whether gold, hit points, or humanoid sacrifice, keep ritual books, limit the number of rituals any PC can know, and possibly allow access to a core of rituals but make all the others knowable only through feats.
|
|
|
