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6 months ago ::
Dec 31, 2012 - 5:55PM
#1
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One thing that's generally been true as long as races have been set up with bonuses to certain stats (and sometimes penalties to others) is that the stats have had a stronger "pull" than the rest of everything else that's going on, with relatively few exceptions. (Though some certainly exist.)
Imagine two setups. I'm going to phrase them in extremes:
I) A Half-Orc is a great fighter. A Half-Elf is an okay fighter. A Halfling is a bad fighter. II) A Half-Orc, a Half-Elf and a Halfling are all good fighters, but have bonuses that help them be a fighter in ways that are culturally appropriate. For example, a half-orc might have a bonus to charging, a half-elf might give bonuses to allies, and a halfling might be effective vs. larger characters.
Obviously D&D has never been completely at one extreme or the other, but I think that moving more towards II is generally more interesting. It's even okay if most people would agree that a Half-Orc is a better fighter than a Halfling, but a Halfling fighter still has unique and awesome options available that make playing one something more than just a pure RP choice at the cost of adventuring utility.
I hope that most people like that setup even if they disagree with what I suggest next.
I think that a great way to move hard towards setup II is to chuck racial ability score bonuses and replace them with more potent general racial features. While we're at it, it would be cool if every race got at least one feature for each of the three pillars. (For combat, defensive abilities are better than offensive ones because every character benefits from them.)
The big drawback to this is that it makes races more complicated. An ability score boost goes on the sheet and then you can forget about it. As someone who doesn't like a proliferation of tiny situational bonuses, I'm leery of making race a bigger source of them. But I like the idea that races have bonuses to being a fighter differently than other races instead of more or less just better or worse than other races.
Also this idea might just be terrible.
Dwarves invented beer so they could toast to their axes. Dwarves invented axes to kill people and take their beer.
Swanmay Syndrome: Despite the percentages given in the Monster Manual, in reality 100% of groups of swans contain a Swanmay, because otherwise the DM would not have put any swans in the game.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 31, 2012 - 6:04PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Apr 15, 2001
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Humans would probably suck lwithout some other mechanical advantage. Humans do not really have any racial powah to shine. Last I looked I couldn't teleport or breath fire. Humans should probably be boring mechanicallly. How powerful they are is another question. Doesn't bother me if an elf is more dextrous than a human although right now dex is uber for other reasons.
Reducing a character to a list of dice rolls and modifiers is not role playing*
*pg 30, AD&D 2nd Ed DMG, 1989.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 31, 2012 - 6:07PM
#3
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I think removing ability bonuses sounds great.
For example, to show that dwarves are naturally tough and hardy, say they get to roll their skill die with Constitution ability checks instead of giving them a Con bonus.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 31, 2012 - 6:10PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Jun 22, 2012
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see, its not just bonus proficiencies and abilities that seperate races, a half orc IS naturally stronger than your average human. as i have pointed out in other threads, racial stat changes refer to how they differ to humans. which is also why i agree to stat penalties. orcs have a penalty to int because they are naturally less intelligent than the average human.
my idea on racial stats, give all races bonuses and penalties again (to represent their comparison to humans) and make the stat advantage of humans no penalties. and perhaps give them free skill training (to represent their quick adaptability as referenced in dnd lore)
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6 months ago ::
Dec 31, 2012 - 6:18PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Dec 21, 2011
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If they get rid of racial bonuses, what they should do is create Weapon Bonuses and other benefits (like what the other races receive) that can be in a pool for Human PCs. Then let each Human PC pick two or three of them. That would simulate the diversity that is represented in with Humans in the fantasy world, and it would balance them with the other races. I'm all for getting rid of the bonuses to abilities. They are unnecesary because a) they aren't interesting, b) they don't really fit with bounded accuracy game mechanics.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 31, 2012 - 6:23PM
#6
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Date Joined:
Jan 20, 2002
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Somehow, I had never thought about this. It would be really easy to give ability score related bonuses, like give Half-Orcs a carrying capacity increase and perhaps a damage bonus with Great Weapons ...
It would definitely level the playing field. PCs are extreme examples; who cares if the Orc wants to have an 18 int, he's just the smartest orc there ever was.
Regardless of ability boosts, humans need something.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 31, 2012 - 6:31PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Nov 25, 2012
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I think the OP has a point. Stat bonuses may have a place, but they tend to force players to choose between "the character I wanna play" and "the obvious powergaming choice". To me, that's an unfortunate and unnecessary situation
giving the races general bonuses that actively influence how the character solves problems etc should be the way to go.
Example: both halflings and half-orcs can pick up the rogue class and become good sneaks. While the halflings size gives him advantages at darting between the legs of his enemies and planting a blade in their knee, the half-orc's size lets him move fast and force his way into an advantageous position, or maybe subdue his foes bluntly before striking with a well-placed dagger.
hardcoded racial bonuses are boring and restrictive
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6 months ago ::
Dec 31, 2012 - 6:31PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Oct 21, 2012
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Its funny you post this Lesp, I have been wondering lately why we need to make the races mechanically distinct at all. It seems that as a role playing choice it would be better to allow the range of benefits and drawbacks possible for racial choices to be allowable for any race class combo, and at the same time remove any stat changes from racial choice.
In that way players are free to chose a race without needing to force their character into a certain build.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 31, 2012 - 6:33PM
#9
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I support the removal of racial statistic adjustments wholeheartedly. I'm not even real concerned about the 'nudge them towards things' idea, as I don't believe race should be a significant amount of the so-called 'character pie'.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 31, 2012 - 6:39PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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I like the idea of just getting rid of racial ability score bonuses. I don't think I'd like to see a bunch of different powers and features for races though. The differentiation you get from the ones they have now is enough for me. Giving halflings, half-orcs and half-elves all powers that make them good at different classes in unique ways sounds good on paper, but I think it would be such a complex thing to balance that in practice you would end up with a couple of races that everyone just thought of as having "the best" racial powers (a la 4e's Elven Accuracy). I'd rather have it be "these three people are all good fighters. By the way, this one is a halfling, this one is a half-orc and this one is a half-elf".
<Ioun> they're apparently making a MolIsCool pp
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