|
6 months ago ::
Dec 30, 2012 - 8:50AM
#21
|
Date Joined:
Jan 20, 2002
|
Everyone should be useful at every time; this doesn't mean everyone has to shine all the time. In my years of DMing, the worst possible thing is when one player sits bored during a scene because he has nothing to do. The second worst thing is when a character fails to be good at what thep layer thought he'd be good at.
D&D is a game about heroic combat and treasure hunting; pretty much all else has been added on, no? Thus, everyone should have something to do in every combat scene and every exploration scene. The fighter's the high strength guy, so he can push open doors (or hold them back against a horde of enemies); the rogue's the high dex guy, so he deals with the traps, the wizard's the intelligent guy so he figures out puzzels ...
Let everyone shine. It's not about some political correctness kick that one of the original posters called out. It's about everyone getting to have fun, because everyone's playing the same game; it would be like playing chess, but one player doesn't get their bishops because their pieces are shaped lke dragons, so they're cooler ...
|
|
|
|
6 months ago ::
Dec 30, 2012 - 8:55AM
#22
|
Date Joined:
Jan 18, 2010
|
It's not about some political correctness kick that one of the original posters called out.
Can you definitively prove it isn't?
I'll wait.
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse."- John Stuart Mill
“Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views.”― William F. Buckley
Original Hipster of the House of Trolls: I was hipster before hipster was cool
Resident Hater
Mini Hate Machine
|
|
|
|
6 months ago ::
Dec 30, 2012 - 8:59AM
#23
|
Date Joined:
Aug 13, 2004
|
That type of character shouldn't be supported by D&D. You get a character who basically hides in a corner when combat breaks out. That's not cool.
So, I guess I'm the only one who had players run Apostles of Peace effectively in combat-oriented campaigns?
Defensive characters are combat oriented. I think the dubject is more about classes like 2nd edition thieves who were throwing peanuts at tarasque and archdevils, weakening parties in these situations instead of staying at home.
Bilbo is supposed to be some kind of ninja, and Frodo carries the cursed ring, there are reasons to bring these walking plot devices in dangerous adventures.
In rpgs, it feels artificial to force adventurers to weaken their chances of survival by taking a princess in their group. Even more in D&D where dangers can teleport at your home directly in your soup bowl.
"They are making it clear that when modern design and common sense come into conflict with tradition, tradition wins." - thecasualoblivion
"Vancian isn't broken, you just have to set your game to the wizard's clock!" - Oxybe
"In many ways, making a new edition of D&D is alot like trying to sell a car to the Amish." - Dwarfslayer
"Encounters are the heart of the AD&D game" - PHB AD&D 2nd edition.
"you shouldn't even bother trying to become like me." - Gary Gygax (Elfcrusher confirmed)
"Feel free to claim I said anything you like. How's someone going to call you out on it? Are they going to be all like, 'I know all of the things that Gary said, and that's not one of them?'"
- Gary Gygax
|
|
|
|
6 months ago ::
Dec 30, 2012 - 9:00AM
#24
|
Date Joined:
Oct 25, 2010
|
To me balance doesn't imply that everyone is equally good at everything but instead supports everyone having a moment to shine (which is partly the DMs responsibility). Having a balanced core keeps newer DMs from falling into various traps that can ruin the fun of the game.
Yeah. This is ideally what balance should be about. It doesn't mean that people should be able to equally contribute in every encounter, it should mean that everyone has thier niche that they get to be really good at, and that those niches should come up relatively evenly in frequency.
Obviously this will never be 100% because adventures will vary, but we can try to get it as close as possible.
|
|
|
|
6 months ago ::
Dec 30, 2012 - 9:01AM
#25
|
Date Joined:
Jul 18, 2007
|
Xeviat, sometimes people shouldn't be useful. Sometimes it should be the wizard who's reduced to shooting his crossbow or throwing darts, sometimes the fighter should become a javelin tossing machine, sometimes the rogue should get stuck disarming a trap. That's fun. Knowing that everyone can contribute all the time isn't.
|
|
|
|
6 months ago ::
Dec 30, 2012 - 9:06AM
#26
|
|
|
Xeviat, sometimes people shouldn't be useful. Sometimes it should be the wizard who's reduced to shooting his crossbow or throwing darts, sometimes the fighter should become a javelin tossing machine, sometimes the rogue should get stuck disarming a trap. That's fun. Knowing that everyone can contribute all the time isn't.
And sometimes fans and customers don't know what they're talking about.
|
|
|
|
6 months ago ::
Dec 30, 2012 - 9:07AM
#27
|
Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
|
It`s all about combat! That seems to be what balanced meens now!
No fact is wizards are too potent outside of combat and fighters have no class features that arent combat how does that sound like its all about combat... to you in other words your first and main point is categorically wrong.
|
|
|
|
6 months ago ::
Dec 30, 2012 - 9:07AM
#28
|
Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
|
It's not about getting each PC something useful or powerdul to do 100% of the time, it is making each PC feel useful more than 50% of the time.
An it is hard to do that because of varying playstyles, without a hard social contract or a massive complex ruleset.
Orzel, Halfelven son of Zel, Mystic Ranger, Bane to Dragons, Death to Undeath, Killer of Abyssals, King of the Wilds.
Constitution Based Class for Next!
|
|
|
|
6 months ago ::
Dec 30, 2012 - 9:43AM
#29
|
Date Joined:
Dec 10, 2010
|
It's not about getting each PC something useful or powerdul to do 100% of the time, it is making each PC feel useful more than 50% of the time.
An it is hard to do that because of varying playstyles, without a hard social contract or a massive complex ruleset.
So what about games where you rarely or almost never have combat encounters? If they should try to balance anything, shouldn`t it be a varied game, and not focus it all on combat?
|
|
|
|
6 months ago ::
Dec 30, 2012 - 9:47AM
#30
|
Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
|
So what about games where you rarely or almost never have combat encounters? If they should try to balance anything, shouldn`t it be a varied game, and not focus it all on combat?
Do you actually hear anyone saying its awesome the rogue sucked in combat and that the fighter only has combat options?
|
|
|
