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5 months ago ::
Feb 02, 2013 - 6:19PM
#1411
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Date Joined:
May 14, 2010
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I'm still wonder why he said a classless system is faster. Was it simple, did he help them make it?
In 3.5e, if you pick a fighter then you only need to pick your skills, feats, equipment, and you are done. Like I said, something is off.
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5 months ago ::
Feb 02, 2013 - 6:54PM
#1412
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No, that's not a guaranteed truth. I can pick up my BtVS rpg book, which uses classless creation, and create a character quicker than I can for either 3e or any Palladium game, both of which use classes.
I am not talking about you, because we are all familiar with our books.
I am talking about somebody who is new and never played the game.
What am I saying is that the new guy can make a character faster and easier
if the class was made and ready to go.
That's also not a guaranteed truth. I have introduced players to both 3e and the BtVS rpgs. Building a 3e character took considerably longer than building a BtVS character. So much so that the group didn't have enough time left to play 3e when characters were made for new players in that session but we were able to play BtVS when characters were made for new players.
boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/805/buffy-th...
Are you talking about this? Are you kidding me? Did you really compare a board game to
D&D?
No.
I said the "BtVS rpg."
Edit: Edited to remove snark.
Why Mechanics-Alignment Integration is Bad
Show
so why even play a fighter if you can play the paladin the exact same way behaviorally and get added power to boot. "Paladin" is about accepting better game-enhancing mechanics at the price of more rigid in game behavior.
Really? So it goes something like this?
Fighter: "I want to be a paladin."
NPC: "Really?"
Fighter: "Yes."
NPC: "Very well." Starts reading from a holy book while still in-character "Do you accept having to choose and stick to the lawful good alignment, eventhough neither of us actually knows that it exists or what it is?"
Fighter: "I do."
NPC: "Do you reject good game balance because you accidentally rolled a high Charisma?"
Fighter: "What?"
NPC: "I don't know what it means either."
Fighter: "Oh. Umm, ok I do."
NPC: "In the name of all that is metagamey and broken, accept these better game enhancing mechanics."
Fighter: "These what?"
NPC: "Just get out there and try to fulfill a million different people's notion of good while not violating and part of any of them."
So the system is designed such that every single hit needs to be described to avoid confusion? Here's a scenario. The players are nudists, everybody in the world are nudists, it's not weird, it's totally normal in this land. They are naked and they fight drakes taking damage throughout, but healing up with surges. Later they meet the guy who raised the drakes.
Part 1: I didn't describe any of the hits. What does he see?
Part 2: Lets say I described the drakes as biting the players, yet they healed up. What does he see?
D20 Modern Toon PC Race.
Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.
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5 months ago ::
Feb 02, 2013 - 6:55PM
#1413
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I found the cinematic unisystem quick for character building when I ran it. I hesitate (due to the passage of time) to compare it to DnD but I would agree it is almost uniformly faster than some other class based systems (Palladium especially).
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5 months ago ::
Feb 02, 2013 - 6:58PM
#1414
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I'm still wonder why he said a classless system is faster. Was it simple, did he help them make it?
In 3.5e, if you pick a fighter then you only need to pick your skills, feats, equipment, and you are done. Like I said, something is off.
I didn't say classless is faster than classed. I said BtVS rpg's classless system is faster than 3e's classed system (and definitely Palladium's classed system). BtVS is one specific example of a quick classless system. However there are other classless systems that are much slower than BtVS' system. Vampire springs immediately to mind as being slower.
Why Mechanics-Alignment Integration is Bad
Show
so why even play a fighter if you can play the paladin the exact same way behaviorally and get added power to boot. "Paladin" is about accepting better game-enhancing mechanics at the price of more rigid in game behavior.
Really? So it goes something like this?
Fighter: "I want to be a paladin."
NPC: "Really?"
Fighter: "Yes."
NPC: "Very well." Starts reading from a holy book while still in-character "Do you accept having to choose and stick to the lawful good alignment, eventhough neither of us actually knows that it exists or what it is?"
Fighter: "I do."
NPC: "Do you reject good game balance because you accidentally rolled a high Charisma?"
Fighter: "What?"
NPC: "I don't know what it means either."
Fighter: "Oh. Umm, ok I do."
NPC: "In the name of all that is metagamey and broken, accept these better game enhancing mechanics."
Fighter: "These what?"
NPC: "Just get out there and try to fulfill a million different people's notion of good while not violating and part of any of them."
So the system is designed such that every single hit needs to be described to avoid confusion? Here's a scenario. The players are nudists, everybody in the world are nudists, it's not weird, it's totally normal in this land. They are naked and they fight drakes taking damage throughout, but healing up with surges. Later they meet the guy who raised the drakes.
Part 1: I didn't describe any of the hits. What does he see?
Part 2: Lets say I described the drakes as biting the players, yet they healed up. What does he see?
D20 Modern Toon PC Race.
Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.
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5 months ago ::
Feb 02, 2013 - 7:16PM
#1415
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Date Joined:
May 14, 2010
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I'm still wonder why he said a classless system is faster. Was it simple, did he help them make it?
In 3.5e, if you pick a fighter then you only need to pick your skills, feats, equipment, and you are done. Like I said, something is off.
I didn't say classless is faster than classed. I said BtVS rpg's classless system is faster than 3e's classed system (and definitely Palladium's classed system). BtVS is one specific example of a quick classless system. However there are other classless systems that are much slower than BtVS' system. Vampire springs immediately to mind as being slower.
So what's the steps of creating a character in BtVS?
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5 months ago ::
Feb 02, 2013 - 7:33PM
#1416
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I'm still wonder why he said a classless system is faster. Was it simple, did he help them make it?
In 3.5e, if you pick a fighter then you only need to pick your skills, feats, equipment, and you are done. Like I said, something is off.
I didn't say classless is faster than classed. I said BtVS rpg's classless system is faster than 3e's classed system (and definitely Palladium's classed system). BtVS is one specific example of a quick classless system. However there are other classless systems that are much slower than BtVS' system. Vampire springs immediately to mind as being slower.
So what's the steps of creating a character in BtVS?
You have a pool of points for buying attributes. There are six of them.
You have a pool for Qualities. There are singular qualities like Attractiveness or Hard to Kill, and there are package qualities like Slayer, Demon, Sorcery, Watcher. Each quality has it's own cost. Any unspent quality points get rolled over into your skill points. You can also incrase the number of quality points available by taking drawbacks, up to a specific point limit.
You have a pool for skills. They are broad-based, with different attributes being added to the roll for different uses. There are 17 of them, and they are bought just like attributes but with no cap (attributes cap at 6 for humans).
You consult a simple chart to determine your HP, record your number of drama points (they get used during play and aren't relevent here except in the time it takes to write the number down), and you're done.
Why Mechanics-Alignment Integration is Bad
Show
so why even play a fighter if you can play the paladin the exact same way behaviorally and get added power to boot. "Paladin" is about accepting better game-enhancing mechanics at the price of more rigid in game behavior.
Really? So it goes something like this?
Fighter: "I want to be a paladin."
NPC: "Really?"
Fighter: "Yes."
NPC: "Very well." Starts reading from a holy book while still in-character "Do you accept having to choose and stick to the lawful good alignment, eventhough neither of us actually knows that it exists or what it is?"
Fighter: "I do."
NPC: "Do you reject good game balance because you accidentally rolled a high Charisma?"
Fighter: "What?"
NPC: "I don't know what it means either."
Fighter: "Oh. Umm, ok I do."
NPC: "In the name of all that is metagamey and broken, accept these better game enhancing mechanics."
Fighter: "These what?"
NPC: "Just get out there and try to fulfill a million different people's notion of good while not violating and part of any of them."
So the system is designed such that every single hit needs to be described to avoid confusion? Here's a scenario. The players are nudists, everybody in the world are nudists, it's not weird, it's totally normal in this land. They are naked and they fight drakes taking damage throughout, but healing up with surges. Later they meet the guy who raised the drakes.
Part 1: I didn't describe any of the hits. What does he see?
Part 2: Lets say I described the drakes as biting the players, yet they healed up. What does he see?
D20 Modern Toon PC Race.
Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.
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5 months ago ::
Feb 02, 2013 - 8:02PM
#1417
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Mecha neglected to mention the Champion/White Hat divide but that is also a simple decision (it determines how many quality and drama points you have to start and whether you may buy Drama Points with XP as I recall).
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5 months ago ::
Feb 02, 2013 - 8:02PM
#1418
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Date Joined:
May 14, 2010
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You have a pool of points for buying attributes. There are six of them.
You have a pool for Qualities. There are singular qualities like Attractiveness or Hard to Kill, and there are package qualities like Slayer, Demon, Sorcery, Watcher. Each quality has it's own cost. Any unspent quality points get rolled over into your skill points. You can also incrase the number of quality points available by taking drawbacks, up to a specific point limit.
That is simple. 3 easy steps. They even have package qualities to make it faster.
But D&D will never be a classless system. There classes like barbarian, monks, etc that will
be ruin if D&D becomes a classless. All those class features just went bye bye.
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5 months ago ::
Feb 02, 2013 - 8:04PM
#1419
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You have a pool of points for buying attributes. There are six of them.
You have a pool for Qualities. There are singular qualities like Attractiveness or Hard to Kill, and there are package qualities like Slayer, Demon, Sorcery, Watcher. Each quality has it's own cost. Any unspent quality points get rolled over into your skill points. You can also incrase the number of quality points available by taking drawbacks, up to a specific point limit.
That is simple. 3 easy steps. They even have package qualities to make it faster.
But D&D will never be a classless system. There classes like barbarian, monks, etc that will
be ruin if D&D becomes a classless. All those class features just went bye bye.
If it becomes clasless, yes you would be correct. However, as I mentioned, they are not mutually exclusive.
Why Mechanics-Alignment Integration is Bad
Show
so why even play a fighter if you can play the paladin the exact same way behaviorally and get added power to boot. "Paladin" is about accepting better game-enhancing mechanics at the price of more rigid in game behavior.
Really? So it goes something like this?
Fighter: "I want to be a paladin."
NPC: "Really?"
Fighter: "Yes."
NPC: "Very well." Starts reading from a holy book while still in-character "Do you accept having to choose and stick to the lawful good alignment, eventhough neither of us actually knows that it exists or what it is?"
Fighter: "I do."
NPC: "Do you reject good game balance because you accidentally rolled a high Charisma?"
Fighter: "What?"
NPC: "I don't know what it means either."
Fighter: "Oh. Umm, ok I do."
NPC: "In the name of all that is metagamey and broken, accept these better game enhancing mechanics."
Fighter: "These what?"
NPC: "Just get out there and try to fulfill a million different people's notion of good while not violating and part of any of them."
So the system is designed such that every single hit needs to be described to avoid confusion? Here's a scenario. The players are nudists, everybody in the world are nudists, it's not weird, it's totally normal in this land. They are naked and they fight drakes taking damage throughout, but healing up with surges. Later they meet the guy who raised the drakes.
Part 1: I didn't describe any of the hits. What does he see?
Part 2: Lets say I described the drakes as biting the players, yet they healed up. What does he see?
D20 Modern Toon PC Race.
Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.
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5 months ago ::
Feb 02, 2013 - 8:07PM
#1420
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John Wick has had some success he claims, doing exactly that. This search list on Youtube should show his relevant vids. John Wick's Santa Vaca
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