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6 months ago ::
Dec 13, 2012 - 9:29PM
#11
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Date Joined:
Sep 20, 2004
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A lot of discussion is based around skill training, and the only concenus seems to be is that different people have different expectations. Some want to eliminate risk with training. Some people want greater possibility with training and still risk failure.
So why is there only 1 way to train skills? Let the player decide what fits his character best.
Here's some example options.
Option A: You have a minimum roll of 6/8/10/12 on the d20. (better min).
Option B: Add 1d6/1d8/1d10/1d12 to your skill rolls. (better max).
Option C: You gain +3/4/5/6 to a skill. (better min and max).
Optino D: Roll 2d20/3d20/4d20 and take the highest. (better average). *
I could also see a possibility of mixing them.
*D doesn't quite match the math of the rest.
A does not either. Every other option is statistically superior. And the game sort of does this already. With feats you can get a minimum roll of 5 or 10. With training you gain between +3/7. The problem that we are seeing is what happens when you stack everything together. And, for the most part, the problem comes from Skill Mastery/Mighty Exertion. The rules for those two abilities break the skill system right now. Fix those two, clarify that the entire group cannot try a skill check/how many skill checks can be tried and when, and then the system will be fine.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 14, 2012 - 5:31AM
#12
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A lot of discussion is based around skill training, and the only concenus seems to be is that different people have different expectations. Some want to eliminate risk with training. Some people want greater possibility with training and still risk failure.
So why is there only 1 way to train skills? Let the player decide what fits his character best.
Here's some example options.
Option A: You have a minimum roll of 6/8/10/12 on the d20. (better min).
Option B: Add 1d6/1d8/1d10/1d12 to your skill rolls. (better max).
Option C: You gain +3/4/5/6 to a skill. (better min and max).
Optino D: Roll 2d20/3d20/4d20 and take the highest. (better average). *
I could also see a possibility of mixing them.
*D doesn't quite match the math of the rest.
A does not either. Every other option is statistically superior. And the game sort of does this already. With feats you can get a minimum roll of 5 or 10. With training you gain between +3/7. The problem that we are seeing is what happens when you stack everything together. And, for the most part, the problem comes from Skill Mastery/Mighty Exertion. The rules for those two abilities break the skill system right now. Fix those two, clarify that the entire group cannot try a skill check/how many skill checks can be tried and when, and then the system will be fine.
Now that you mention it...
A: is done as a feat (min 5)
B: is done as a background (+3->7)
C: is done as a manuver (+1d6->1d10)
So yea... all the mechanics are there (though i agree they need a bit of balance). They just need to open it up a bit.
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F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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