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Dec 7, 2012 -- 3:08AM, Uskglass wrote:

It’s true that some maneuvers are situational in their best use, and using expertise dice for damage is often the best way to win a fight. We think that’s OK, because combats are moving along quickly and that’s one of the big goals of the game.

That basically means making manouvers into trap options.

With not way to differtiate on frequency, since everything is at-will for the fighter in DDN, we have pretty much this situation:

Accuracy > Damage > Conditions      

None is willing to trade accuracy for damage and none is willing to trade straight damage for conditions if they can help that. Unless conditions are very strong, which they cannot be on an at-will frequency.  
And even in the narrow cases where a condition would outshine damage, the figher wil be unhappy about losing damage output.
It seems to me the old damage+rider paradigm would make more sense for an at-wills only structure. 

Concur.  If the fighter's thing is damage, then make him able to do big damage normally, without using his XD.  Then, let him use the XD exclusively for things like conditions and maneuvers.  Because given a choice between damage and conditions, most people will choose the damage most of the time.  it doesn't mean that the conditions won't ever get used, it's just going to make them a lot less attractive, for no particular reason.

Essentially, instead of a deadly strike maneuver, assume that all strikes will be as effective in terms of HP depletion as the fighter can make them, and let him choose to make them more interesting AS WELL.

In short, give the fighter nice things.  Then, AVOID GIVING THEM TO ANYONE ELSE!

Dec 7, 2012 -- 4:54AM, Uskglass wrote:

Dec 7, 2012 -- 4:26AM, Orzel wrote:

Perhaps split Deadly Strike and Parry away from the other maneuvers. At the end of the fighter's turn he can decide to be Offensive or Defensive. If he chooses Offensive, his next attack deal extra damage equal to his full ED, if he chooses Defensive, the next attack that hits him take damage reduction equal to his Full ED. All them stances.

This may work.

Basically if at the end of his turn the figher has not expended XDs he can keep them as damage reduction buffer till the start of his next turn.

Manouvers he may decide to use are unrelated to this.    

I too like this thing.

More generally:

1. Races need work, and they've confirmed that races need work.. not very enlightening here, to be fair.
2. I don't see any of his examples of situations where maneuvers might be better than damage as expecially compelling. The only time a conditional maneuver will be better is if for some reason you can't do damage. Sorta like in 3e how you could grapple or whatever but most often you just wanted to do more damage.
3. Let's call a skill a skill regardless of how they treat them in game, please.

Dec 7, 2012 -- 8:42AM, ChrisCarlson wrote:

Some maneuvers really begin to shine when presented with more, weaker opponents. A high-level fighter, facing a horde of orcs, can Cleave or Whirlwind Attack with great effectiveness. But he won't need/use those maneuvers against a really tough monster.

Nothing new there.   The 1e Fighter got 1 attack/round/level vs less-than-1-HD monsters, like goblins (one thing that made orcs the classic monster was that, at exactly 1 HD, they were immune to that feature).  The 3.5 fighter could Whirlwind Attack (4 feats) or Great Cleave (3 feats) to clear an area within his reach (which, with the right weapon and an Enlarge or Polymorph Spell, could be huge) of enemies he could one-shot.  The 4e Fighter could also Cleave, doing a little damage to a second target & helping him chew through 1-hit-kill minions, or Whirlwind Attack (or several other Close burst /1/ powers) to hit all adjacent - no feat trees required, just power choices.

So the 5e fighter can still Cleave or WWA vs trivial enemies?  Well, I suppose we should be thankful that ability wasn't taken away - like his dailies, encounters, utilities, marking, combat superiority, self-healing, bonus feats, fighter-exclusive feats, full BAB, weapon specializaton, extra attacks/round, % STR, higher hp bonus for CON over 16, superior THAC0 and arguably-best high-level saving throws.