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6 months ago ::
Dec 13, 2012 - 5:46PM
#651
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Date Joined:
Jun 29, 2010
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I still don't know how someone would like racial ability scores penalties...is kinda of a dumb idea and prevent diferent race/class combos. Hell, i love the idea of 13th age relating to class and race ability score bonus, it actually prevent the min/max mentality of: "i don't play this race for this class because it doesn't have bonus to it's main stat the class use"...
Because they make sense, and not having them doesn't. It prevents nothing, just takes the focus off min/maxing and onto roleplaying and immersion, where it should be. By sticking with reason over mechanics it gets mechanics focused people to go play something eles, thereby improving the game for the rest of us. 8-)
DISCLAIMER - Everything said by anyone is absolute subjective opinion. There are no objective claims being made by me, or anyone else, unless they overtly state 'The following is an objective claim'. At this point if you choose to be offended by anything I (or anyone else) say the problem is ENTIRELY your own.
WotC won't let us give them money because they won't produce a game we want to play.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 13, 2012 - 5:47PM
#652
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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Similar structures on game elements contribute to interoperability (look we just got multi-racing analogous to multiclassing if you want it), as well as fairness ... the only complaints about it are subjective.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 13, 2012 - 5:47PM
#653
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Date Joined:
Jun 29, 2010
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One has to wonder if the desire to optimize has gotten out of hand.
A -2 stat penalty translates into a -1 mod. How does that make a race suck at a class? Does that -1 really make that huge of a difference?
Does this mean that if a character has only a 16 in a prime stat vs. an 18 he is doomed to eternal suckage?
Exactly! You can play a character with straight 7s, won't make ANY difference in the game.
DISCLAIMER - Everything said by anyone is absolute subjective opinion. There are no objective claims being made by me, or anyone else, unless they overtly state 'The following is an objective claim'. At this point if you choose to be offended by anything I (or anyone else) say the problem is ENTIRELY your own.
WotC won't let us give them money because they won't produce a game we want to play.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 13, 2012 - 6:13PM
#654
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Date Joined:
Apr 24, 2012
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Please remember to keep your comments positive, productive, and on topic. Remember we are trying to create a
mutually beneficial and productive community for everyone to take part in. At the end of the day we are all in this thing together, and if we don't work together we will never get anywhere! If you have any questions or would like to read the CoC you can find it here: company.wizards.com/conduct Remember, Keep it clean, Keep it nice, and of course Keep it fun! Thank you for your understanding!
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6 months ago ::
Dec 13, 2012 - 8:24PM
#655
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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although I found the Eladrin to be a silly race (teleporting elves= silly IMHO).
I kind of did at first (but it doesnt have to be),
In an era where the planes are closer together being able to slip accross one to another and the realm of faerry has a different but unpredictable time synch... see fairie used to merge with the mundane world all over the place wizards can still learn rare places where the barriers are weak and move through faerrie so that a months travel can be made in like a day. The eladrin cant do that natively because the method they use to push through momentarily has a danger of keeping them there it can destroy the connection to the mortal world
I dont have eladrin as a race on my game world ... but an individual talented in spatial transcendance would be built using one as a template.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 13, 2012 - 8:32PM
#656
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Date Joined:
Oct 26, 2004
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Exactly by removing stat penalties we stop gimping people who don't wanna play a race/class combo that don't match up ability scores. The idea isn't to prevent anything but to allow things.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 13, 2012 - 9:26PM
#657
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Date Joined:
Apr 15, 2001
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although I found the Eladrin to be a silly race (teleporting elves= silly IMHO).
I kind of did at first (but it doesnt have to be),
In an era where the planes are closer together being able to slip accross one to another and the realm of faerry has a different but unpredictable time synch... see fairie used to merge with the mundane world all over the place wizards can still learn rare places where the barriers are weak and move through faerrie so that a months travel can be made in like a day. The eladrin cant do that natively because the method they use to push through momentarily has a danger of keeping them there it can destroy the connection to the mortal world
I dont have eladrin as a race on my game world ... but an individual talented in spatial transcendance would be built using one as a template.
Not to worried what the fluff is I just don't like teleport as a racial ability on a PC race. At least one in a core book.
Reducing a character to a list of dice rolls and modifiers is not role playing*
*pg 30, AD&D 2nd Ed DMG, 1989.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 13, 2012 - 9:29PM
#658
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Date Joined:
Sep 19, 2006
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One has to wonder if the desire to optimize has gotten out of hand.
A -2 stat penalty translates into a -1 mod. How does that make a race suck at a class? Does that -1 really make that huge of a difference?
Does this mean that if a character has only a 16 in a prime stat vs. an 18 he is doomed to eternal suckage?
Exactly! You can play a character with straight 7s, won't make ANY difference in the game.
The amount of "suckage" just depends on what the average roll is of a d20 to hit a level-appropriate's defenses. If the swing is roughly 45-55% on a d20, then the penalty isn't AS noticable as if the numbers were greater. But one has to understand that ALL your stats now play a much more stronger role in your character as opposed to say, 4E. In 4E you chose the better of your Str/Con, Dex/Int, Wis/Cha for defenses where as now a penalty in a stat that's not necessarily primary to your class, build, etc. will still very much hinder you. So a Fighter with a Int of 8 is going to be hit HARD (probably) on all his Intelligence saving throws for effects that relate to it and so a penalty here is felt more strongly.
As for a character with straight 7s, it certainly will make a differene in the game as that character continually fails far more often at even mundane tasks than another person in the group with maybe only ONE 7 in their ability score.
Not to worried what the fluff is I just don't like teleport as a racial ability on a PC race. At least one in a core book.
Yea, at first we were crazy scared at the implications of what this power could facilitate. Then we read the rules and realized that you have to have line of sight to use it. So if there ever was an Eladrin captured, instantly he's hooded or otherwise blinded to negate the effect.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 13, 2012 - 9:30PM
#659
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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although I found the Eladrin to be a silly race (teleporting elves= silly IMHO).
I kind of did at first (but it doesnt have to be),
In an era where the planes are closer together being able to slip accross one to another and the realm of faerry has a different but unpredictable time synch... see fairie used to merge with the mundane world all over the place wizards can still learn rare places where the barriers are weak and move through faerrie so that a months travel can be made in like a day. The eladrin cant do that natively because the method they use to push through momentarily has a danger of keeping them there it can destroy the connection to the mortal world
I dont have eladrin as a race on my game world ... but an individual talented in spatial transcendance would be built using one as a template.
Not to worried what the fluff is I just don't like teleport as a racial ability on a PC race. At least one in a core book.
As long as the mechanics avoided the fey charger over use ie the tactical benefit is kept under control to me the functionality is fine as long as I have a grip on the flavor.
See,to me its remeniscent of being able to move through enemies spaces without invoking opportunity attacks ... ooh look the halfling.
Also : You use the word silly oddly (though I guess I am not really one to complain about somewhat different language use)... to me it directly implied flavor issues. Mechanically I am not seeing silly.
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6 months ago ::
Dec 14, 2012 - 2:28AM
#660
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But people are flawed just as much as we are strong. No living thing can escape this, especially not sentient ones. I 100% understand the view of "I want to make what I want to make", and it's a fine view to have. But I also see the point of view from people who like the feel of the older games 
The difference is showing the differences between the races in absolutes rather than small quirks.
Yeah, but you are not flawed because of your race...thought now that i think about...seeing how old D&D was sexist with the penality for being female, i won't be amazed that the racial penalty is a proof of racism
But I am flawed because I am human.
I cannot run as fast as a cheetah, and in fact, my own house cat is faster.
Many animals are stronger.
Now being human has its advantages, but it has its downsides too, like if you take away my clothes I freeze in my chosen environment.
This is not racism, it is fact. The races in D&D are not the same as human races in the real world. Comparing me to an elf is much like comparing me to a lemur-- we're totally different animals. Somethings I do better, other things not so well.
In a system/world where there are only advantages, not having an attribute is a disadvantage. The idea that there are no disadvantages is simply an illusion.
For example, if Orcs get +2 to strength, they have an advantage over those who don't get that bonus strength if one wishes to play a fighter. That means, anyone playing fighter that doesn't get a +2 to strength is disadvantaged. After all, missing that -1 mod means eternal suckage.
Of course, if the game has both penalties AND bonuses, then the mod suck factor sinks to a -2. Still, is that the end of viability for a class? Does the character with a 14 in a prime stat totally suck? If the answer is yes, then the game system as well as its players' attitudes might need a rethink.
This person gets it. Thanks for saving me the trouble of posting something like this myelf.
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