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7 months ago ::
Nov 23, 2012 - 7:55PM
#201
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Date Joined:
Sep 17, 2004
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I created my own chances for using the use rope skill
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I newer expected the GM to make adventures tailored to my skills. I was just looking for opportunities to use my skills and i had considered different strategies for using the skill
Which any creative player can do with any ability and skill in any edition of D&D.
Still waiting for the answer on hypnotism via Use Rope though.
That directed at me? If I was GMing? Sure. Charisma + Use Rope, same DC as any other Charisma check to extract information or compliance from them. The entire point is to encourage player creativity, after all.
Not information or compliance, although that might work. More of "domination" effect, to command my foes to attack someone, like how hypnotism worked in one of them old movies.
So basically you don't mind allowing Use Rope to emulate magical effects, as long as it's done in the context of "manipulating rope or similar material"?
No more so than any other skill, or what could be accomplished with a straight Charisma check. Flat-up Domination is definitely out of the picture, though allowing them to hypnotise a guard to get through instead of making a Charisma + Bluff check to lie to him would be perfectly fine.
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7 months ago ::
Nov 23, 2012 - 10:34PM
#202
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No more so than any other skill, or what could be accomplished with a straight Charisma check. Flat-up Domination is definitely out of the picture, though allowing them to hypnotise a guard to get through instead of making a Charisma + Bluff check to lie to him would be perfectly fine.
So a DEX INT Wizard that manipulates a Rope as a whip, does that allow me to bypass my +2 to hit and instead get +3 to hit since I'm manipulating a rope or a similar material?
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7 months ago ::
Nov 23, 2012 - 10:45PM
#203
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Date Joined:
Sep 17, 2004
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No more so than any other skill, or what could be accomplished with a straight Charisma check. Flat-up Domination is definitely out of the picture, though allowing them to hypnotise a guard to get through instead of making a Charisma + Bluff check to lie to him would be perfectly fine.
So a DEX INT Wizard that manipulates a Rope as a whip, does that allow me to bypass my +2 to hit and instead get +3 to hit since I'm manipulating a rope or a similar material?
Of course not. That's not a skill use, that's an attack.
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7 months ago ::
Nov 23, 2012 - 10:49PM
#204
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No more so than any other skill, or what could be accomplished with a straight Charisma check. Flat-up Domination is definitely out of the picture, though allowing them to hypnotise a guard to get through instead of making a Charisma + Bluff check to lie to him would be perfectly fine.
So a DEX INT Wizard that manipulates a Rope as a whip, does that allow me to bypass my +2 to hit and instead get +3 to hit since I'm manipulating a rope or a similar material?
Of course not. That's not a skill use, that's an attack.
But it'd have to be a skill use if I'm using it to entangle an opponent's legs with it, yes?
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7 months ago ::
Nov 23, 2012 - 10:52PM
#205
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Date Joined:
Sep 17, 2004
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No more so than any other skill, or what could be accomplished with a straight Charisma check. Flat-up Domination is definitely out of the picture, though allowing them to hypnotise a guard to get through instead of making a Charisma + Bluff check to lie to him would be perfectly fine.
So a DEX INT Wizard that manipulates a Rope as a whip, does that allow me to bypass my +2 to hit and instead get +3 to hit since I'm manipulating a rope or a similar material?
Of course not. That's not a skill use, that's an attack.
But it'd have to be a skill use if I'm using it to entangle an opponent's legs with it, yes?
We don't have any rules for tripping yet, but I'm pretty sure they'll still just be attacks.
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7 months ago ::
Nov 23, 2012 - 11:01PM
#206
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We don't have any rules for tripping yet, but I'm pretty sure they'll still just be attacks.
But using Use Rope to set up a trap that causes the enemy to trip is not going to make an attack?
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7 months ago ::
Nov 23, 2012 - 11:12PM
#207
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Date Joined:
Sep 17, 2004
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We don't have any rules for tripping yet, but I'm pretty sure they'll still just be attacks.
But using Use Rope to set up a trap that causes the enemy to trip is not going to make an attack?
What, you mean setting it up beforehand? At best, you'd create a rope trap to make an attack in its own right. I'd want firm rules before I allowed a player to do it, though, for fear of unbalancing the combat engine.
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7 months ago ::
Nov 23, 2012 - 11:33PM
#208
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We don't have any rules for tripping yet, but I'm pretty sure they'll still just be attacks.
But using Use Rope to set up a trap that causes the enemy to trip is not going to make an attack?
What, you mean setting it up beforehand? At best, you'd create a rope trap to make an attack in its own right. I'd want firm rules before I allowed a player to do it, though, for fear of unbalancing the combat engine.
Well let's see... in Shrek 2 they certainly seemed to use either Use Rope or Acrobatics in order to tie the dragon up.
And here's the thing: as it stands, there are no firm rules with Use Rope, which already overlaps with various skills as it stands. I could argue about utilizing various combos using various skills and ability checks that don't involve attacks, yet emulate them somewhow. We could go at it all day, and still it's not necessarily going to end well, if at all.
We haven't even begun with the fact that in D&D Next, monster levels are currently useless, which means that theoretically I can hypnotize Vecna into giving up even just ONE secret using Use Rope. At level 1. As a Skill Specialist Rogue with Skill Mastery. Unless the DM has to introduce Vecna with an obscene amount of Wisdom just to ensure that Vecna avoids being hypnotized, assuming that's how the DM would resolve hypnotism in the first place.
Does Use Rope deserve to be a skill? Perhaps, especially since D&D Next's devs have decided to go the "ability check + argue that your skill should apply" route, which is similar to 13th Age's "ability check + argue that your background should apply" route, which means even Knowledge checks would be far more useful than before, when they were JUST Intelligence checks.
Between D&D Next and 13th Age though, I still say 13th Age's background is better than D&D Next's background. Compared to FATE's aspect + fate point + stunt system however, both can be considered inferior. But we're not talking about FATE anyway, and the only reason why 13th Age was even brought up would be because A) both D&D Next's skills and 13th Age's backgrounds are functionally the same, even though 13th Age is more customizable and does allow the player to have a similar exchange as what we had for Use Rope, and B) 13th Age is said to be a "love letter to D&D"; not meant to be a D&D clone, but not necessarily deviating so much from D&D that its roots wouldn't be recognizable. So the comparing of both systems is almost always unavoidable.
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7 months ago ::
Nov 24, 2012 - 12:48AM
#209
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Huff puff puff. People just going back and forth :P You can make any skill you want so if you want use rope, do it. Also, with how skills work in this edition, skills WILL overlap in certain areas. Every skill imaginable deserves to be a skill as long as it's reasonable :P No catch all skills I mean.
My two copper.
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7 months ago ::
Nov 24, 2012 - 1:37AM
#210
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Huff puff puff. People just going back and forth :P You can make any skill you want so if you want use rope, do it. Also, with how skills work in this edition, skills WILL overlap in certain areas. Every skill imaginable deserves to be a skill as long as it's reasonable :P No catch all skills I mean.
If that is the case, why not give the players the ability to create your own skills? You know, like how FATE and 13th Age do it?
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