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7 months ago ::
Nov 21, 2012 - 6:57AM
#91
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Personally, I think 4e Archons should be renamed, while the LG Archons should keep it.
I think they should both be renamed. 4e "archons" should go back to being "elementals:.
The nine alignment servitors should be:
GOOD: All good servitors are called Celestials
LG: Angels
NG: Guardinals
CG: Ghaele (I would like to preserve eladrin as a future playable fey race)
NEUTRAL: All neutral servitors are called Spirits
LN: Inevitables
TN: Rilmani*
CN: Slaad
EVIL: All evil servitors are called Fiends
LE: Devil
NE: Yugoloth
CE: Demon
*I really hate these creatures, actually. They have absolutely no personality. I'd like to replace them with the Primal Spirits of 4e.
While I agree that both types of Archons should be renamed, I don't think angels should be associated with LG. I liked angels being generic servants of all astral powers, and them having their opposite in the elemental archons. I'd just like to see the 3e archons (arguably no relation at all to angels) renamed, and the 4e archons retained as different than just dumb elementals.
Kalex the Omen Dungeonmaster Extraordinaire Concerning Player Rules Bias
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Gaining victory through rules bias is a hollow victory and they know it.
The argument goes, that some idiot at the table might claim that because there is a "default" that is the only true way to play D&D. An idiotic misconception that should be quite easy to disprove just by reading the rules, coming to these forums, or sending a quick note off to Customer Support and sharing the inevitable response with the group. BTW, I'm not just talking about Next when I say this. Of course, D&D has always been this way since at least the late 70's when I began playing.
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7 months ago ::
Nov 21, 2012 - 7:04AM
#92
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Here is what I would like to see...
GOOD: All good servitors are called Celestials
LG: Exemplars
NG: Guardinals
CG: Ghaele (I would like to preserve eladrin as a future playable fey race)
NEUTRAL: All neutral servitors are called Spirits
LN: Inevitables
TN: Rilmani
CN: Slaad
EVIL: All evil servitors are called Fiends
LE: Devil
NE: Yugoloth
CE: Demon
ELEMENTALS: (differentiated by intelligence)
LOW: Elementals
MEDIUM: ??? (4e "Archons")
HIGH: Genie (Djinn, Dao, Efteet, etc.)
GENIUS: Elemental Lords
Kalex the Omen Dungeonmaster ExtraordinaireConcerning Player Rules Bias
Show
Gaining victory through rules bias is a hollow victory and they know it.
The argument goes, that some idiot at the table might claim that because there is a "default" that is the only true way to play D&D. An idiotic misconception that should be quite easy to disprove just by reading the rules, coming to these forums, or sending a quick note off to Customer Support and sharing the inevitable response with the group. BTW, I'm not just talking about Next when I say this. Of course, D&D has always been this way since at least the late 70's when I began playing.
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7 months ago ::
Nov 21, 2012 - 7:12AM
#93
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Date Joined:
Sep 17, 2004
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Yeah, I know, I just misinterpreted what you were saying. Personally, I think 4e Archons should be renamed, while the LG Archons should keep it. It didn't really fit, anyway; "archon" is a Greek word that means "ruler" or "lord", and the near-mindless elemental soldiers won't be doing much ruling, while it speaks to me of the spiritual enlightenment the LG Archons possess as a result of their nature.
I'd be happy if neither retained it. Using your logic Archon doesn't fit the servants of LG gods either. I think Exemplars is great for the pre-4e creatures, but what would fit for the elementals?
"Elemental Warrior" would fit the elementals, and LG Archons are no more the servants of LG gods than Demons are the servants of CE gods. They represent their Alignment; sometimes they serve the gods that share that alignment, but their true nature is related to the plane from which they originate.
And "archon" does fit them, in my opinion; like I said, they embody the enlightenment that LG represents. They are the rule of law, and the rule of self by personal codes of ethics, all contributing to the greater good. Each of them is a ruler, for they have gained dominion over their own souls.
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7 months ago ::
Nov 21, 2012 - 9:24AM
#94
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Date Joined:
Jun 15, 2006
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I suposse 3rd eladrins (CG outsiders) and 4thd Ed (elf subrace) are linked. eladrins outsiders would be the ancestros of elves who evolved from petitiones to higher ranks.
I imagine guardinals, the furry outsiders, linked to primal source powers, and the could be summoned by good druids or shamans.
* I hate rimalnis, it isn´t the monster stats or the powers, it their f***ing background about neutrality. I hate that stupy manichism about cosmic balance evilness-godness. There isn´t harmony where injustice rules, evilness is the cosmic disharmony. Do my family must die by a zombie apocalypsis because it is demanded by the "cosmic balance" demand? Let´s imagine a cleric has found a cure to lycantropy, but he is killed by rimalni to "restore the balance"? A diplomat is about to get the end of dwarf-elf war, but he is killed by rimalnis because "the peace could break the cosmic equilibrium"..
* Planescape Petitioner is a good background idea but the 3rd Ed template wasn´t good (the challenge rating only was right for certain creatures weren´t too powerful or hadn´t got special attacks). Some manes and lemures could evolve to petitioners. If some page from future DM gives advice about creating templates, the petitioner could be used like example about avoiding mistakes to get the right balance of power.
Lemures and manes could have got some slow regeneration power (after rest some days) to be used like food in "infernal farms" (for example if they are near some touchstone, like from "Planar handbook").
Do you imagine a crazy splatterpunk warmachine using (magically altered) lemures or manes like mechanic pieces?
"Say me what you're showing off for, and I'll say you what you lack!" (Spanish saying)
Book 13 Anaclet 23
Confucius said: "The Superior Man is in harmony but does not follow the crowd. The inferior man follows the crowd, but is not in harmony"
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7 months ago ::
Nov 21, 2012 - 1:45PM
#95
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* I hate rimalnis, it isn´t the monster stats or the powers, it their f***ing background about neutrality. I hate that stupy manichism about cosmic balance evilness-godness. There isn´t harmony where injustice rules, evilness is the cosmic disharmony. Do my family must die by a zombie apocalypsis because it is demanded by the "cosmic balance" demand? Let´s imagine a cleric has found a cure to lycantropy, but he is killed by rimalni to "restore the balance"? A diplomat is about to get the end of dwarf-elf war, but he is killed by rimalnis because "the peace could break the cosmic equilibrium"..
Ha, thats pretty awesome actually. The perfect meddlers, nice work.
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7 months ago ::
Nov 21, 2012 - 3:00PM
#96
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Date Joined:
Mar 26, 2007
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Rilmani rock, they featured in my most recent campaign for a bit (especially one badass cuprilach).
Archons are exemplars of LG, nothing to do with angels, and not sure why people think some elemental soldiers should rightfully steal their name (of over 10 years).
And Eladrins, please, they are CG exemplars, not a variant elf, I guess because the name sounds similar to Eldar (Middle-Earth and Warhammer), they slapped the name on the new "magic"-elf, talk about lazy.
Thank god they didn't use (steal) the name Guardinal for some type of variant dwarf or some rubbish.
I have no problem with all sorts of cosmologies (planar takes), but the blatant stealing and changing of Heinsoo & Co was just too much of a butchery.
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7 months ago ::
Nov 21, 2012 - 3:03PM
#97
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Date Joined:
Mar 26, 2007
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And modrons, please, not formians, that was a lame 3rd Ed favouritism deal due to a designer or two.
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6 months ago ::
Nov 28, 2012 - 9:40PM
#98
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Date Joined:
Oct 17, 2007
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Bumped, because of the interesting poll results for what a Succubus should be 32% Demon 31% Devil 29% Either/both www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4...Hopefully, this will not be the last of this subject...
"People want balance but can't accept this homogenization that occurs as a result of that balance being implemented. then they complain that the fighter is weaker than the wizard ad nauseam.: - Teitan
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6 months ago ::
Nov 28, 2012 - 9:54PM
#99
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Date Joined:
Sep 17, 2004
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And modrons, please, not formians, that was a lame 3rd Ed favouritism deal due to a designer or two.
Personally, I wouldn't mind a larger focus being given to a modron/formian war over the proper definition of LN, akin to how the Fiends are fighting the Blood War over the best definition of Evil, and how the Tanarri overthrew the Obrinths. Basically, byzantine rules and regulations vs Borglike "all will submit to our rule".
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