Level 1: Expertise Benefit: You gain a single expertise die, a d4. You can spend an expertise die to use a maneuver that you know. You must be able to take actions to spend an expertise die. How you regain expertise dice is determined by your knack for leadership. As you gain levels, the size of the die increases (from a d4 to a d6, for instance), and you gain additional dice, as noted on the Warlord table. At 1st level, you know the maneuver Directed Action. Level 1: Knack for Leadership Tactical Leader When you start combat you start with all your expertise dice spent. At the end of each of your turns, you gain an additional expertise dice equal to the round of combat or 3 (whichever is lower). In addition, you gain training in knowledge warfare, sense motive and two additional (skills of your choice: intimidate, persuade).
Level 2: Tactical Expertise When you use an action to use directed action maneuver, you can use the same action to spend unused warlord’s expertise dice to perform maneuver using an ally or allies in place of yourself.
Level 6: Tactical Master When you use the directed action, you can use directed action a second time as your reaction.
Inspiring Leader When you use an action to make an attack without using a maneuver, you regain all of your spent expertise dice. In addition, you gain training in knowledge warfare, perform and two additional (skills of your choice: intimidate, persuade).
Level 2: Inspired Expertise Choose one of the following options:
Inspiring Word (Option 1) - Choose a living creature within 30' feet of you. Roll all the expertise dice and add their results. It regains hit points equal to the result.
Inspiring Word (Option 2) Choose a living creature within 30' feet of you. Roll all the expertise dice and add their results. It's maximum and current hit points both increase by the result for 1 minute.
Alternative (Option 3) Add parry to your warlords maneuver list. Any ally that can understand you can spend any of your warlord’s unspent expertise dice to use the parry maneuver.
Level 2: Inspired Speech You warlord can spend 5 minutes giving a speech, performing a sing, or using other method to bolster your allies moral. When you finish your allies are immune to fear and cannot fall unconscious for 1 hour. This affect ends if you fall unconscious.
Level 6: Rally Allies Allies that can understand you can spend a 1 HD as a reaction. If an ally has no remanding hit dice they gain hit points equal to their constitution modifier or 1, whichever is lower.
Strategic Leader At the end of each of your turns, you regain all of your spent expertise dice. In addition, you gain training in knowledge warfare, knowledge history and two additional (skills of your choice: intimidate, persuade).
Level 2: Strategic Planning If you have a knowledge skill appropriate for a situation and at least 10 minutes to plan you can gain the benefit of one of the following options:
Anyone that can understand you can use the help action once on any ability checks related to the plan.
You double your number of expertise dice, but the additional dice can only be spent on actions related to the plan. The bonus dice do not refresh and you must spend these dice before you can benefit from this ability again.
Level 6: Contingency Plan You can use your Strategic Planning feature ignoring the 10 minute requirement. You can only use this ability once an encounter.
Maneuvers List
Cleave Composed Attack Danger Sense Directed Action Great Fortitude Iron Will Lightning Reflexes Opportunist
Precise Shot Protect Spring Attack Volley Whirlwind Attack Spring Attack Vault
Edit: updated
Based the feedback I made changes Level Weapon Attack Expertise Dice Save Bonus DC Class Features 1 +2 1d4 +1 Expertise, Knack for Leadership 2 +2 1d6 +1 Maneuver 3 +2 2d6 +2 4 +3 2d6 +2 Knack for Leadership Benefit 5 +3 2d6 +2 6
Not bad. Strategic planning apply on knowledge checks?
That was my thinking. That way you can also do planning for situations that aren't neccesarily combat related.
That aspect of it is good.
But perhaps this could also be used for other things, like initiative bonuses?
Also I don't feel that this is a complete Warlord, unless there are a lot more and vastly different maneuvers than what we have seen so far I don't think it can support the kind of "big bang" actions on an Encounter and/or Daily basis which are an important element of the class.
That was my thinking. That way you can also do planning for situations that aren't neccesarily combat related.[/quote]That aspect of it is good.But perhaps this could also be used for other things, like initiative bonuses?Also I don't feel that this
I was thinking about the way I could see designing the warlord.
This is how I would expect to see a Warlord, at the moment, as well.
Knack for Leadership
You gain training in any two knowledge skills and one additional(skills of your choice: intimidate, knowledge, persuade or sense motive).
Maybe needs to be cleaned up? Could do the Rogue thing, and associate Skills with sets of "appropriate" maneuvers.
Strategic Planning If the warlord has at least 10 minutes to plan for a situation he has knowledge in, he can double the number of expertise dice. The additional dice can only be spent on actions related to that sphere of knowledge. Additionally, the bonus dice do not refresh until spending an additional 10 minutes to plan.
I get it, but I'm not sure I'm a huge fan. I dunno. It just seems open to super-nova abuse. EDIT: Of the "and then the Fighter does 1d8+9d10 damage on his first attack" variety.
Tactical Expertise During the warlord turn, he can spend expertise dice to grant an ally of his choice the use a maneuver the warlord has trained. The ally lose the maneuver at the end of the warlords next turn.
Yeah, this is what I would expect. Just needs some clarification - like are you granting ED along with the maneuver, for the ally to actually use it? Are you giving the character access to the maneuver, and then they activate it? Can a Fighter ally, for example (though it's kind of moot, if everyone has ED) take the maneuver you give him, but use his own dice? Are you making all choices with the maneuver? Some of that is pretty nit-picky, but if I had to guess, I'd venture that folks could take that same "mechanic" and run it in very different ways at the table, as it stands.
Contingency Plan You can make a contest check against either intelligent or charisma to use your Strategic Planning feature ignoring the 10 minute requirement. You can only use this ability once an encounter.
Eh, really not a fan. But I think it goes hand-in-hand with my concerns with Strategic Planning. Also, random ("random") access to your abilities is a pet peeve.
Unique Maneuvers List (Forth Coming)
Well the good news is you only need like 5, tops.
Seriously though, if you're having the Warlord just give out maneuvers, and the other characters actually use them, there's very little reason why they won't just significantly overlap the Fighter, Rogue, or Whatever. Heck, honestly, this could easily (easily) just be done as a Fighter class option (though I'd say the same for the Rogue and - to a lesser extent - the monk, at the moment).
Healing Would be a set of maneuvers that way you can have multiple healing options and they are easy to add/remove. Tactical Expertise would allow allies to take advantage of the healing maneuver.
Yeah, "healing as maneuvers" is the obvious way to go with it. You could easily do both "inspiring healing" abilities, and "first aid" abilities (that would be granted to allies to use, obviously).
This is how I would expect to see a Warlord, at the moment, as well.Maybe needs to be cleaned up? Could do the Rogue thing, and associate Skills with sets of "appropriate" maneuvers.I get it, but I'm not sure I'm a huge fan. I dunno. It just seems
Not bad. Strategic planning apply on knowledge checks?
That was my thinking. That way you can also do planning for situations that aren't neccesarily combat related.
That aspect of it is good.
But perhaps this could also be used for other things, like initiative bonuses?
Also I don't feel that this is a complete Warlord, unless there are a lot more and vastly different maneuvers than what we have seen so far I don't think it can support the kind of "big bang" actions on an Encounter and/or Daily basis which are an important element of the class.
I consider the ability to increase your dice significantly before and during combat to be fairly significant. It is limited in a way, but since a knowledge warefare exist its not often you can't at least have the opportunity. I was actually leaning more to it might be too much of a nova actually, but I wanted to start somewhere.
That was my thinking. That way you can also do planning for situations that aren't neccesarily combat related.[/quote]That aspect of it is good.But perhaps this could also be used for other things, like initiative bonuses?Also I don't feel that this
- Reword tactical expertise - Added the warlords manuevers Tactical Expertise You can spend expertise dice to grant an ally of your choice expertise dice equal to the number of dice you spend. This dice can be used only with maneuvers on the warlords maneuver list. The ally lose the maneuver at the end of the warlords next turn.
Directed Action Effect: You can spend up to two expertise dice to grant an ally an action against a creature of your choice you can see. On a hit using a weapon, roll all the expertise dice you grant, and add up their results. The damage gains a bonus equal to that total. This attack can't be granted by Tactical Expertise.
Inspiring Words (Option 1) Choose a living creature within 30' feet of you. Roll all the expertise dice and add their results. It regains hit points equal to the result.
Inspiring Words (Option 2) Choose a living creature within 30' feet of you. Roll all the expertise dice and add their results. It's maximum and current hit points both increase by the result for 1 minute.
Inspiring Words (Option3) Replace the inspiring word maneuver with the parry maneuver on the Warlord Maneuver List.
- Reword tactical expertise- Added the warlords manuevers Tactical Expertise You can spend expertise dice to grant an ally of your choice expertise dice equal to the number of dice you spend. This dice can be used only with maneuvers on the warlords
You gain training in any two knowledge skills and one additional(skills of your choice: intimidate, knowledge, persuade or sense motive).
Maybe needs to be cleaned up? Could do the Rogue thing, and associate Skills with sets of "appropriate" maneuvers.
I was using a format similiar to the format for Monks. I'll work on that.
Strategic Planning If the warlord has at least 10 minutes to plan for a situation he has knowledge in, he can double the number of expertise dice. The additional dice can only be spent on actions related to that sphere of knowledge. Additionally, the bonus dice do not refresh until spending an additional 10 minutes to plan.
I get it, but I'm not sure I'm a huge fan. I dunno. It just seems open to super-nova abuse. EDIT: Of the "and then the Fighter does 1d8+9d10 damage on his first attack" variety.
Tactical Expertise
During the warlord turn, he can spend expertise dice to grant an ally of his choice the use a maneuver the warlord has trained. The ally lose the maneuver at the end of the warlords next turn.
Yeah, this is what I would expect. Just needs some clarification - like are you granting ED along with the maneuver, for the ally to actually use it? Are you giving the character access to the maneuver, and then they activate it? Can a Fighter ally, for example (though it's kind of moot, if everyone has ED) take the maneuver you give him, but use his own dice? Are you making all choices with the maneuver? Some of that is pretty nit-picky, but if I had to guess, I'd venture that folks could take that same "mechanic" and run it in very different ways at the table, as it stands.
I reworded tactical expertise so hopefully that clarifies things better. The initial wording wasn't my intent.
Contingency Plan You can make a contest check against either intelligent or charisma to use your Strategic Planning feature ignoring the 10 minute requirement. You can only use this ability once an encounter.
Eh, really not a fan. But I think it goes hand-in-hand with my concerns with Strategic Planning. Also, random ("random") access to your abilities is a pet peeve.
Hopefully rewording of Tactical Expertise fix this somewhat. I also removed the check from it..
Maybe needs to be cleaned up? Could do the Rogue thing, and associate Skills with sets of "appropriate" maneuvers.[/quote]I was using a format similiar to the format for Monks. I'll work on that.I get it, but I'm not sure I'm a huge fan. I dunno.
Not a bad start, but i'm not sure i like stratigic planning being just more dice.
How about something like this:
Strategic Planning If you have a knowledge skill appropriate for a situation and at least 10 minutes to plan you can gain the benefit of one of the following options:
Anyone that can understand you can use the help action once on any ability checks related to the plan.
You double your number of expertise dice, but the additional dice can only be spent on actions related to the plan. The bonus dice do not refresh and you must spend these dice before you can benefit from this ability again.
How about something like this:Strategic Planning If you have a knowledge skill appropriate for a situation and at least 10 minutes to plan you can gain the benefit of one of the following options: Anyone that can understand you can use the help acti
There really needs to be more abilities like "Lamb to the Slaughter" and less "then your ally does something he could normally do anyway" stuff.
It's nice to have one or two abilities like that, but overall not the best.
Strategic Planning is cool, but I'd like a more Tactical Warlord option as well. Maybe one who gains Expertise dice as the combat continues? Potentially many more dice than the Strategic Planning, but it builds up (Maybe none on the first turn, 1 on the second, 2 on the third, with appropriate scaling?).
I also think it would be a really cool way to differentiate the Warlord if there was an opportunity for the Warlord Maneuvers to cost less Expertise dice based on certain conditionals.
There really needs to be more abilities like "Lamb to the Slaughter" and less "then your ally does something he could normally do anyway" stuff.It's nice to have one or two abilities like that, but overall not the best.Strategic Planning is cool, but
Extending a couple of these ideas: -- warlords granted action ought to count as a reaction by the ally. If the ally has already used their reaction, they can't be the subject of that maneuver. This keeps it in the action economy 5th ed is looking for -- warlord healing ought to be temp hp. Differentiates it from clerical healing, and represents that after the adrenalin surge from the warlord's inspiring word wears off you realize you are still wounded. -- the warlord ought to get something for using their action to help an ally (unless you're looking for it to work as a "tactical word" similar to the cleric's word of power). I was thinking they should be able to make an attack that does damage equal to the expertise dice they give away to their ally (but no weapon damage or attribute add).
Extending a couple of these ideas:-- warlords granted action ought to count as a reaction by the ally. If the ally has already used their reaction, they can't be the subject of that maneuver. This keeps it in the action economy 5th ed is looking for
Extending a couple of these ideas: -- warlords granted action ought to count as a reaction by the ally. If the ally has already used their reaction, they can't be the subject of that maneuver. This keeps it in the action economy 5th ed is looking for
Ah good point.
-- warlord healing ought to be temp hp. Differentiates it from clerical healing, and represents that after the adrenalin surge from the warlord's inspiring word wears off you realize you are still wounded.
Inspiring Word Opt 2 is the current implementation of temp hit points.
-- the warlord ought to get something for using their action to help an ally (unless you're looking for it to work as a "tactical word" similar to the cleric's word of power). I was thinking they should be able to make an attack that does damage equal to the expertise dice they give away to their ally (but no weapon damage or attribute add).
I did focus on tactics more definitely needs to be expanded to cover other options.
Ah good point.Inspiring Word Opt 2 is the current implementation of temp hit points.I did focus on tactics more definitely needs to be expanded to cover other options.
There really needs to be more abilities like "Lamb to the Slaughter" and less "then your ally does something he could normally do anyway" stuff.
It's nice to have one or two abilities like that, but overall not the best.
Lamb to the Slaughter does a pull and then has ally charge which they would have done anyway. Everything except the pull can be reproduced with this.
Strategic Planning is cool, but I'd like a more Tactical Warlord option as well. Maybe one who gains Expertise dice as the combat continues? Potentially many more dice than the Strategic Planning, but it builds up (Maybe none on the first turn, 1 on the second, 2 on the third, with appropriate scaling?).
I'm not sure I understand, are you saying additional dice or total dice?
I also think it would be a really cool way to differentiate the Warlord if there was an opportunity for the Warlord Maneuvers to cost less Expertise dice based on certain conditionals.
Example?
Lamb to the Slaughter does a pull and then has ally charge which they would have done anyway. Everything except the pull can be reproduced with this.I'm not sure I understand, are you saying additional dice or total dice?Example?
The tactical warlord, if I understand it correctly, is an interesting idea that would separate the warlord further from the fighter but might be a little complicated for a core class option.
EX: round 1: no ED round 2: 1 ED round 3: 2 ED round 4: 3 ED, etc.
It replaces the normal progression.
If implemented, it should probably cap out at 2x or +x dice above that of a comparable fighter.
As a concept, it represents the warlord gaining tactical knowledge and advantage as the battle goes on.
The tactical warlord, if I understand it correctly, is an interesting idea that would separate the warlord further from the fighter but might be a little complicated for a core class option.EX:round 1: no EDround 2: 1 EDround 3: 2 ED round 4: 3 ED, e
During the warlord turn, he can spend expertise dice to grant an ally of his choice the use a maneuver the warlord has trained. The ally lose the maneuver at the end of the warlords next turn.
Yeah, this is what I would expect. Just needs some clarification - like are you granting ED along with the maneuver, for the ally to actually use it? Are you giving the character access to the maneuver, and then they activate it? Can a Fighter ally, for example (though it's kind of moot, if everyone has ED) take the maneuver you give him, but use his own dice? Are you making all choices with the maneuver? Some of that is pretty nit-picky, but if I had to guess, I'd venture that folks could take that same "mechanic" and run it in very different ways at the table, as it stands.
I reworded tactical expertise so hopefully that clarifies things better. The initial wording wasn't my intent.
Really, I think the thing to be careful of is letting the Warlord "make anyone a Fighter". If he's got the same dice, and the same maneuvers to give, he stands to be "the Fighter-maker". But, I'm not sure how to avoid that (or even if avoiding it is strictly necessary).
Hm. Just as an "ease of use" thing, why not go the "strategies" approach that one of the Warlord threads was seriously working with?
Something like... "Choose a maneuver you know. Any ally that you can see, and with whom you can communicate can spend your Expertise Dice to use that maneuver." - with a round-to-round duration (or just let it be active until you switch it, or get knocked unconscious).
Could also have something that gives you extra Expertise Dice, that only allies can spend. Maybe start an encounter with them, and have them require an action to refresh (a "Refocus" or "Rethink" or something action), though really you could probably let them refresh normally, too. Limit it such that no ally can spend more dice in one round than your normal dice limit.
Yeah, this is what I would expect. Just needs some clarification - like are you granting ED along with the maneuver, for the ally to actually use it? Are you giving the character access to the maneuver, and then they activate it? Can a Fighter all
Making the granted actions cost the recipient's reaction is not a good idea, why do people keep suggesting that? it's almost as annoying as people who thought odd numbered penalties in 3e were a good idea.
Furthermore why are we encouraging the devs to spam ED for every martial class?
Next up your warlord lacks mage support why can't he boost mage damage? The warlord needs to work with every other class.
Making the granted actions cost the recipient's reaction is not a good idea, why do people keep suggesting that? it's almost as annoying as people who thought odd numbered penalties in 3e were a good idea.Furthermore why are we encouraging the devs t
Please explain your thought process a bit on why an additional action taken outside of your normal turn should not use your reaction if the warlord is not simply giving you their action?
I agree it should not cost your reaction if the warlord is just giving you something you use for your normal action.
And it makes sense it would not cost your reaction if the warlord simply gives up their action to you (maybe, but see the example below).
But where the end result is an overall increase in the sum total of actions for the two characters, it seems to make sense for the recipient to have to use their reaction to get any extra action from the warlord. It seems more in line with the 5e action economy and would prevent 10 first level warlords hiding behind cover each giving a free action to the fighter on point, who then gets +10 attacks that round in the same 6 seconds.
There needs to be some limit on the number of actions transferred to a single character and utilizing the reaction as the cost/brake makes some sense to me.
Please explain your thought process a bit on why an additional action taken outside of your normal turn should not use your reaction if the warlord is not simply giving you their action? I agree it should not cost your reaction if the warlord is jus
"Using your reaction" is just one of those things, like "Every physical character will get Expertise dice (because we're all experts now)" that I may not be a huge fan of (at all, for the second), but which probably should be designed around if we're designing things to fit the current system.
It's similar to the issue with "temporary healing" - real Temporary Hit Ponts, ala 3e and 4e, are an elegant little package of rules that could easily facilitate at-will "healing". But Next doesn't have real Temporary Hit Points, and there's no indication that it will get real Temporary Hit Points, so it's a better choice, at the moment, to design around the somewhat hamfisted implementations Next currently uses.
"Using your reaction" is just one of those things, like "Every physical character will get Expertise dice (because we're all experts now)" that I may not be a huge fan of (at all, for the second), but which probably should be designed around if we're
The concept of temporary hit points has been introduced in 5e though:
Aid spell: Choose up to three creatures within 10 feet of you that are not currently affected by this spell. Each creature's maximum and current hit points both increase by 5 for the next 8 hours.
i think it is logical to expect them to be further developed and implemented, especially if they prove to be a good solution to a design issue for a class like the warlord. Until the monk came out, there was no mechanic to create a magical effect with ED either...
The concept of temporary hit points has been introduced in 5e though: Aid spell: Choose up to three creatures within 10 feet of you that are not currently affected by this spell. Each creature's maximum and current hit points both increase by 5 for t
Hit points that you get, and then lose later, are missing significant aspects of what would allow 3e/4e "temporary hit points" to facilitate at-will healing. Specifically, they're not lost first (your hit points always go down later), and they stack with each other.
Hit points that you get, and then lose later, are missing significant aspects of what would allow 3e/4e "temporary hit points" to facilitate at-will healing. Specifically, they're not lost first (your hit points always go down later), and they stack
The problem with making it use your reaction is that Fighters already have numerous manuveurs that require a reaction, and chances are other classes will end up having some of their own reaction skills.
The problem with making it use your reaction is that Fighters already have numerous manuveurs that require a reaction, and chances are other classes will end up having some of their own reaction skills.
So, looking it over, this is how I might approach it (though I'm only listed out relevant bits - features and maneuvers):
(Just a note here - I'm getting more tired than I should, so quality is quiiiiickly sliding down on this.)
Level 1 - Expertise [Same ol' same ol']
Level 1 - Leadership Benefit: You can use an action to choose a maneuver you know. Any ally that you can see and with whom you can communicate can spend your Expertise Dice to use that maneuver. When you use an action to use this ability, you can use the same action to take another action immediately after choosing the maneuver. The other action cannot involve casting a spell, activating a magic item, or doing anything that requires you to speak.
Level 1 - Planning Benefit: You can use an action to assess your situation and gain temporary Expertise Dice. You gain one temporary die, plus one additional temporary die at 3rd, 6th, and 9th levels. These dice can only be spent by your allies (you cannot spend them), and are not regained at the end of your turn. Each individual ally cannot spend more of your Expertise Dice in a single round than your normal maximum, and you cannot have more temporary Expertise Dice at any given time than that granted by a single use of this ability. When you use an action to use this ability, you can use the same action to take another action immediately after choosing the maneuver.
Maneuvers
Combat Treatment Effect: When you have a healer's kit with at least one use remaining, as an action, you can spend expertise dice to restore hit points to a creature.
Command the Strike Effect: As an action, you can spend expertise dice to allow the target to use its reaction to immediately make an attack or cast a spell. If the target makes an attack, on a hit, roll the expertise dice in place of the weapon's damage dice. If the target casts a spell, the spell's level must be lower than the number of expertise dice you spend.
Hammer and Anvil Effect: When you hit a target with a weapon attack, and that target is within reach of a creature friendly to you, you can spend expertise dice to allow the friendly creature to attack the target as a reaction. The friendly creature makes an attack on the target using a melee weapon. On a hit, roll the expertise dice in place of the weapon's damage dice.
(I've decided that I'm not even touching 'healing' at the moment.)
So, looking it over, this is how I might approach it (though I'm only listed out relevant bits - features and maneuvers):(Just a note here - I'm getting more tired than I should, so quality is quiiiiickly sliding down on this.)Level 1 - Expertise[Sam
Here's an idea, instead of the excessively over complicated system you have right now, try just making the maneuvers work the allies into them.
So you don't need leadership, command the strike just reads.
Target ally makes a weapon attack or casts a minor spell at a target you choose (as long as said target is a legal one for said attack or spell).
Honestly the more I see people try to make ED and warlords work the less I think they are a good fit.
Here's an idea, instead of the excessively over complicated system you have right now, try just making the maneuvers work the allies into them.So you don't need leadership, command the strike just reads.Target ally makes a weapon attack or casts a mi
Honestly the more I see people try to make ED and warlords work the less I think they are a good fit.
I agree.
Not to mention, vault, cleave, spring attack, oppertunist, whirlwind attack, ect... don't seem like warlord things. While they can hold a sword and stab a kobold, they arn't the martial masters the fighter/monk/ranger/barbarian are.
And there's need for more movement stuff. Like "Retreat: When you attack an enemy, each ally adjacent can move 5' without provoking from that enemy. You can also move away from that enemy without provoking."
I agree.Not to mention, vault, cleave, spring attack, oppertunist, whirlwind attack, ect... don't seem like warlord things. While they can hold a sword and stab a kobold, they arn't the martial masters the fighter/monk/ranger/barbarian are.And ther
Lamb to the Slaughter does a pull and then has ally charge which they would have done anyway. Everything except the pull can be reproduced with this.
You have put your finger on the problem, yes. Lamb to the Slaughter can't be reproduced with this system. And it's a cool ability. Wizards should not be moving away from cool abilities.
I'm not sure I understand, are you saying additional dice or total dice?
Additional dice. I prefer a time-scaling mechanic to a "plan for 10 minutes and go nova" mechanic, because nova rounds are the bane of sensible, epic fights.
I also think it would be a really cool way to differentiate the Warlord if there was an opportunity for the Warlord Maneuvers to cost less Expertise dice based on certain conditionals.
Example?
Target the Weak Spot!: If the next attack a character rolls hits, it crits. This costs 5 expertise dice, or 3 if the Warlord Crit this turn.
Hammer and Anvil: The next attack made against target monster gets a bonus to hit equal to the Warlord's Charisma modifier. If the attack hits, the target must make a Con save to avoid falling prone. This costs 4 expertise dice, or 2 if the Warlord is flanking the targetted monster
Break their Lines!: The next time an ally charges this turn, the target of the charge is pushed two squares and knocked prone. This costs 2 expertise dice, or 1 expertise dice if the monster charged is adjacent to another monster.
I actually like the idea of the Warlord having an expertise pool that gains in various ways, and then can be spent for maneuvers. But I really don't want the Warlord's Expertise pool to reset every single turn. Tactical planning occurs in longer than 6 second increments. So the Warlord should have an Expertise pool that can grow and shrink as the combat ebbs and flows.
You have put your finger on the problem, yes. Lamb to the Slaughter can't be reproduced with this system. And it's a cool ability. Wizards should not be moving away from cool abilities. Additional dice. I prefer a time-scaling mechanic to a "pla
This healing capability seems excessive too, this would make the warlord 5x better at healing then the cleric. I don't have any problems with a martial healer, but clerics can only at-will (cure minor wounds, which is 1 hp up to 3). Not sure about the healing ability being a Maneuver, if it was it would have to be HP equal to the # of dice spent not the sum of their totals.
Some other ideas:
Stacking daily power that allows for damage reduction for the whole party, but much lower numbers? Like Ki, but Powers like "For 10 minutes all party members receive damage reduction equal D4+2 as long as they are within 60' of the warlord." this ability could even stack multiple times at high level.
Or it could be done like this "Party gains resistance to one type of damage (fire, cold, bludgeoning) fro D4+1 turns" representing a warlord tactic protecting the group (like shield wall against fire, etc).
I like the idea of a power like a Pre-Battle Braveheart speech "Before the combat, warlord can give a rousing speech, all party members gain D10 + Warlord level in Temporary hp for 10 min. If any member of the party becomes unconscious, warlord must make a will save or the whole party loses this bonus (represent demoralizing/lost focus)."
Just some thoughts.
This healing capability seems excessive too, this would make the warlord 5x better at healing then the cleric. I don't have any problems with a martial healer, but clerics can only at-will (cure minor wounds, which is 1 hp up to 3). Not sure about th
Level 1: Expertise Benefit: You gain a single expertise die, a d4. You can spend an expertise die to use a maneuver that you know. You must be able to take actions to spend an expertise die. How you regain expertise dice is determined by your knack for leadership. As you gain levels, the size of the die increases (from a d4 to a d6, for instance), and you gain additional dice, as noted on the Warlord table. At 1st level, you know the maneuver Directed Action. Level 1: Knack for Leadership Tactical Leader When you start combat you start with all your expertise dice spent. At the end of each of your turns, you gain an additional expertise dice equal to the round of combat or 3 (whichever is lower). In addition, you gain training in knowledge warfare, sense motive and two additional (skills of your choice: intimidate, persuade).
Level 2: Tactical Expertise When you use an action to use directed action maneuver, you can use the same action to spend unused warlord’s expertise dice to perform maneuver using an ally or allies in place of yourself.
Level 6: Tactical Master When you use the directed action, you can use directed action a second time as your reaction.
Inspiring Leader When you use an action to make an attack without using a maneuver, you regain all of your spent expertise dice. In addition, you gain training in knowledge warfare, perform and two additional (skills of your choice: intimidate, persuade).
Level 2: Inspired Expertise Choose one of the following options:
Inspiring Word (Option 1) - Choose a living creature within 30' feet of you. Roll all the expertise dice and add their results. It regains hit points equal to the result.
Inspiring Word (Option 2) Choose a living creature within 30' feet of you. Roll all the expertise dice and add their results. It's maximum and current hit points both increase by the result for 1 minute.
Alternative (Option 3) Add parry to your warlords maneuver list. Any ally that can understand you can spend any of your warlord’s unspent expertise dice to use the parry maneuver.
Level 2: Inspired Speech You warlord can spend 5 minutes giving a speech, performing a sing, or using other method to bolster your allies moral. When you finish your allies are immune to fear and cannot fall unconscious for 1 hour. This affect ends if you fall unconscious.
Level 6: Rally Allies
Allies that can understand you can spend a 1 HD as a reaction. If an ally has no remanding hit dice they gain hit points equal to their constitution modifier or 1, whichever is lower.
Strategic Leader At the end of each of your turns, you regain all of your spent expertise dice. In addition, you gain training in knowledge warfare, knowledge history and two additional (skills of your choice: intimidate, persuade).
Level 2: Strategic Planning If you have a knowledge skill appropriate for a situation and at least 10 minutes to plan you can gain the benefit of one of the following options:
Anyone that can understand you can use the help action once on any ability checks related to the plan.
You double your number of expertise dice, but the additional dice can only be spent on actions related to the plan. The bonus dice do not refresh and you must spend these dice before you can benefit from this ability again.
Level 6: Contingency Plan You can use your Strategic Planning feature ignoring the 10 minute requirement. You can only use this ability once an encounter.
Maneuvers List
Cleave Composed Attack Danger Sense Directed Action Great Fortitude Iron Will Lightning Reflexes Opportunist
Precise Shot Protect Spring Attack Volley Whirlwind Attack Spring Attack Vault
Based the feedback I made changes Level Weapon Attack Expertise Dice Save Bonus DC Class Features 1 +2 1d4 +1 Expertise, Knack for Leadership 2 +2 1d6 +1 Maneuver 3 +2 2d6 +2 4 +3 2d6 +2 Knack for Leadership Benefit 5 +3 2d6 +2 6
Personally, I'm actually less happy with this version. I know the alternate refresh rates are something that other people want, but for me it just feels like an otherwise pretty clean design is getting muddled.
Personally, I'm actually less happy with this version. I know the alternate refresh rates are something that other people want, but for me it just feels like an otherwise pretty clean design is getting muddled.
I think if you're going to use mmaneuvers with warlords you need custom maneuvers and not try to have allies use your maneuvers.
I think a solid mix of both will give the most robust set of options. "Use my maneuvers" is an effective way to do many "buff your attack" effects, but is insufficient to cover all of what the warlord "needs" on its own.
I think a solid mix of both will give the most robust set of options. "Use my maneuvers" is an effective way to do many "buff your attack" effects, but is insufficient to cover all of what the warlord "needs" on its own.
Personally, I'm actually less happy with this version. I know the alternate refresh rates are something that other people want, but for me it just feels like an otherwise pretty clean design is getting muddled.
I really dislike everything refreshing in 6 seconds on a Warlord. It just feels wrong. For a fighter or a monk it works - they're in the thick of combat, every six seconds they can do about the same thing as the last six seconds. The Warlord needs to work to make his plan happen - he should have basic maneuvers he can use frequently, and then powerful encounter-changing abilities that need setup (Because tactical genius does not work in 6 second increments).
Hmmmm... maybe we could clean up the design. Take a page from a few other systems, and introduce a charge/spend mechanic.
Basic Maneuvers: All of these add Expertise to the Warlord's Expertise pools Strategic Maneuvers: All of these cost expertise pool, and don't add. Instant reactions: All of these allow the Warlord to react to situations to protect those who need it and exploit openings. All have triggers, most don't cost expertise (or if they do, minimal). Perhaps they trigger on an ally being bloodied, or an enemy, etc.
I dunno, I can think of a lot of charge/spend mechanics over multiple turns that are very cool, and it differentiates the Warlord from the other martial classes quite nicely.
I really dislike everything refreshing in 6 seconds on a Warlord. It just feels wrong. For a fighter or a monk it works - they're in the thick of combat, every six seconds they can do about the same thing as the last six seconds. The Warlord needs
Personally, I'm actually less happy with this version. I know the alternate refresh rates are something that other people want, but for me it just feels like an otherwise pretty clean design is getting muddled.
Do you think present them as options similiar to how I did inspiring word would be fine? I really would like to have it be easy add options, but still not have the frame work fall appart.
Do you think present them as options similiar to how I did inspiring word would be fine? I really would like to have it be easy add options, but still not have the frame work fall appart.
I think if you're going to use mmaneuvers with warlords you need custom maneuvers and not try to have allies use your maneuvers.
I think there is plenty room to expand their maneuver list. The lack unique maneuver is more a function of wanted to avoid muddling the overall concept, by quibbling over how balance an individual maneuver is.
I think there is plenty room to expand their maneuver list. The lack unique maneuver is more a function of wanted to avoid muddling the overall concept, by quibbling over how balance an individual maneuver is.
Personally, I'm actually less happy with this version. I know the alternate refresh rates are something that other people want, but for me it just feels like an otherwise pretty clean design is getting muddled.
I really dislike everything refreshing in 6 seconds on a Warlord. It just feels wrong. For a fighter or a monk it works - they're in the thick of combat, every six seconds they can do about the same thing as the last six seconds. The Warlord needs to work to make his plan happen - he should have basic maneuvers he can use frequently, and then powerful encounter-changing abilities that need setup (Because tactical genius does not work in 6 second increments).
I disagree. A warlord who is constantly aware of the battle around him and adapting as circumstances changes is the more evocative concept, to me. And I would rather he be able to actually create and react to opportunities within combat (and outside of it, really) on the fly, instead of it happening at some pre-determined mechanical pace.
Which isn't to say I wouldn't want some way to "spike" effectiveness. If you look back at my little take on it, I included a feature that would allow you to gather a bit more "oomph" when needed. You could approach the concept in different ways - a really effective one might be something like:
Decisive Action [5e equivalent of 'once per encounter'] You can gain X extra expertise dice, that must be spent before the end of your next turn or are lost. (X scales with level)
A few thoughts, though:
I'm not interested in a Warlord who gets to "make his plan happen" after a set number of rounds.
I would much rather see a Warlord that facilitates the player creating his own "plans", by combining different maneuvers and effects.
Personally, I'm actually less happy with this version. I know the alternate refresh rates are something that other people want, but for me it just feels like an otherwise pretty clean design is getting muddled.
Do you think present them as options similiar to how I did inspiring word would be fine? I really would like to have it be easy add options, but still not have the frame work fall appart.
It's not really a "problem" - just a matter of personal taste, really. They're already being presented as options (albeit grouped with other features). There's nothing wrong with it, but I'm just not a fan. If you had the same things in the Fighter class, I'd be saying the same thing. It just... hurts the aesthetic of simplicity, that I find appealing.
I really dislike everything refreshing in 6 seconds on a Warlord. It just feels wrong. For a fighter or a monk it works - they're in the thick of combat, every six seconds they can do about the same thing as the last six seconds. The Warlord needs
You have put your finger on the problem, yes. Lamb to the Slaughter can't be reproduced with this system. And it's a cool ability. Wizards should not be moving away from cool abilities.
I feel this is a fairly trivial issue, since you can add new maneuvers to bidge the gap and not have to change any mechanic.
Target the Weak Spot!: If the next attack a character rolls hits, it crits. This costs 5 expertise dice, or 3 if the Warlord Crit this turn.
Hammer and Anvil: The next attack made against target monster gets a bonus to hit equal to the Warlord's Charisma modifier. If the attack hits, the target must make a Con save to avoid falling prone. This costs 4 expertise dice, or 2 if the Warlord is flanking the targetted monster
Break their Lines!: The next time an ally charges this turn, the target of the charge is pushed two squares and knocked prone. This costs 2 expertise dice, or 1 expertise dice if the monster charged is adjacent to another monster.
I actually like the idea of the Warlord having an expertise pool that gains in various ways, and then can be spent for maneuvers. But I really don't want the Warlord's Expertise pool to reset every single turn. Tactical planning occurs in longer than 6 second increments. So the Warlord should have an Expertise pool that can grow and shrink as the combat ebbs and flows.
I don't particularly like the evocative phrases for names, but those are some very cool abilities.
I feel this is a fairly trivial issue, since you can add new maneuvers to bidge the gap and not have to change any mechanic.I don't particularly like the evocative phrases for names, but those are some very cool abilities.
I don't particularly like the evocative phrases for names, but those are some very cool abilities.
Based on what I have heard, actual History indicates in europe prior to fencing gaining prominance.... things like "boars rush" would be how those who wrote the books about fighting named combat moves.
Based on what I have heard, actual History indicates in europe prior to fencing gaining prominance.... things like "boars rush" would be how those who wrote the books about fighting named combat moves.
I don't particularly like the evocative phrases for names, but those are some very cool abilities.
Based on what I have heard, actual History indicates in europe prior to fencing gaining prominance.... things like "boars rush" would be how those who wrote the books about fighting named combat moves.
You have touched on my point. That is true In history and in europe, but all settings aren't modeled off these places. I think we can both agree that fluff is mutable? I just prefer the maneuvers be more generic so that they don't carry any additional bag. They can be fluffed to something more interesting as need anyway.
Based on what I have heard, actual History indicates in europe prior to fencing gaining prominance.... things like "boars rush" would be how those who wrote the books about fighting named combat moves. [/quote]You have touched on my point. That is tr
I don't particularly like the evocative phrases for names, but those are some very cool abilities.
Based on what I have heard, actual History indicates in europe prior to fencing gaining prominance.... things like "boars rush" would be how those who wrote the books about fighting named combat moves.
You have touched on my point. That is true In history and in europe, but all settings aren't modeled off these places. I think we can both agree that fluff is mutable? I just prefer the maneuvers be more generic so that they don't carry any additional bag. They can be fluffed to something more interesting as need anyway.
The maneuver names may have even been more fluffy in the orient. Atleast anime implies it
Based on what I have heard, actual History indicates in europe prior to fencing gaining prominance.... things like "boars rush" would be how those who wrote the books about fighting named combat moves. [/quote]You have touched on my point. That is tr
The maneuver names may have even been more fluffy in the orient. Atleast anime implies it
lol. Okay, now your just being difficult
Reflavoring something to suit your game is possible no matter how flowery or animistic or droll and ahem boringly functional it is... there is fairly real world cases for the fencing guys who go down to pretty mundane names but even theres are kind of jargon. Invitation is a fencing name for "False Opening" and is analogous to "Come and Get It" but less fantasy extreme.
lol. Okay, now your just being difficult :)[/quote]Reflavoring something to suit your game is possible no matter how flowery or animistic or droll and ahem boringly functional it is... there is fairly real world cases for the fencing guys who go down
The maneuver names may have even been more fluffy in the orient. Atleast anime implies it
lol. Okay, now your just being difficult
Reflavoring something to suit your game is possible no matter how flowery or animistic or droll and ahem boringly functional it is... there is fairly real world cases for the fencing guys who go down to pretty mundane names but even theres are kind of jargon. Invitation is a fencing name for "False Opening" and is analogous to "Come and Get It" but less fantasy extreme.
I see that those are things that make you prefer them. I'm saying that the reason that you are using to explain why you like them, are the reason that lead me to not liking them. I prefer the more muted names and terms to the catch phase or flowery names. I would rather see a manuever named Lure then It's a Trap!
lol. Okay, now your just being difficult :)[/quote]Reflavoring something to suit your game is possible no matter how flowery or animistic or droll and ahem boringly functional it is... there is fairly real world cases for the fencing guys who go down
You have touched on my point. That is true In history and in europe, but all settings aren't modeled off these places. I think we can both agree that fluff is mutable? I just prefer the maneuvers be more generic so that they don't carry any additional bag. They can be fluffed to something more interesting as need anyway.
Uh, the East too? Japanese swordmasters had AMAZING names for their various moves and schools of fighting, the more flowery and evocative the better. And China loved that sort of stuff as well. Miyamoto Musashi, one of the most practical swordsmen ever to live, had the following techniques he invented (from Wikipedia):
Crimson-Leaves Strike Autumn Monkey's Body Blow Like a Spark from a Stone Body of Lacquer and Paste Chance-Opening Blow Strike of Non-thought
Evocative names are the norm. Boring names are... boring.
Uh, the East too? Japanese swordmasters had AMAZING names for their various moves and schools of fighting, the more flowery and evocative the better. And China loved that sort of stuff as well. Miyamoto Musashi, one of the most practical swordsme
You have touched on my point. That is true In history and in europe, but all settings aren't modeled off these places. I think we can both agree that fluff is mutable? I just prefer the maneuvers be more generic so that they don't carry any additional bag. They can be fluffed to something more interesting as need anyway.
Uh, the East too? Japanese swordmasters had AMAZING names for their various moves and schools of fighting, the more flowery and evocative the better. And China loved that sort of stuff as well. Miyamoto Musashi, one of the most practical swordsmen ever to live, had the following techniques he invented (from Wikipedia):
Crimson-Leaves Strike Autumn Monkey's Body Blow Like a Spark from a Stone Body of Lacquer and Paste Chance-Opening Blow Strike of Non-thought
Evocative names are the norm. Boring names are... boring.
I'm pretty sure that the East fall well inside the HISTORY part of my statement. However, Garthanos quote that I responded to didn't say east; He/She used the terms History and Europe and I responded to the quote so jumping on this whole East is mind boggling to me...
When I look in the packet I don't see flower names for fighter, I see them for Monk. I looked at what has been presented in the packets to this point and tried to format things as I have seen them in the packet. I preferred to use more generic terms, because I felt that just like the fighter, warlord covers a lot of ground conceptually, so generic terms are a better fit IMO.
My statement of my preference is in no way my trying to make a judgement on your preference. I thought I used clear language to demonstrate it was stating my preferred choice. Sorry if it came off otherwise.
Uh, the East too? Japanese swordmasters had AMAZING names for their various moves and schools of fighting, the more flowery and evocative the better. And China loved that sort of stuff as well. Miyamoto Musashi, one of the most practical swordsme
You have touched on my point. That is true In history and in europe, but all settings aren't modeled off these places. I think we can both agree that fluff is mutable? I just prefer the maneuvers be more generic so that they don't carry any additional bag. They can be fluffed to something more interesting as need anyway.
Uh, the East too? Japanese swordmasters had AMAZING names for their various moves and schools of fighting, the more flowery and evocative the better. And China loved that sort of stuff as well. Miyamoto Musashi, one of the most practical swordsmen ever to live, had the following techniques he invented (from Wikipedia):
Crimson-Leaves Strike Autumn Monkey's Body Blow Like a Spark from a Stone Body of Lacquer and Paste Chance-Opening Blow Strike of Non-thought
Evocative names are the norm. Boring names are... boring.
I'm pretty sure that the East fall well inside the HISTORY part of my statement. However, Garthanos quote that I responded to didn't say east; He/She used the terms History and Europe and I responded to the quote so jumping on this whole East is mind boggling to me...
I rather mentioned that European history in part because it agrees with the Eastern (it seems like everbody knows that about the eastern) but rather the fact that knights did martial take downs and had an elaborate art form including fancy schmancy names and moves involving grabbing your own blade and swinging around your enemy like they were a dancing pole, (and I seem to recall the portrayal of Lancelot in Excaliber is one of the first Cinema pieces that gave it a shot )...
Seems to be something you have to explain.
Preferences aside evocative is authentic... I like evocative spells too.. and "magic missile" should be dropped in a pit some where.
Uh, the East too? Japanese swordmasters had AMAZING names for their various moves and schools of fighting, the more flowery and evocative the better. And China loved that sort of stuff as well. Miyamoto Musashi, one of the most practical swordsme
