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Switch to Forum Live View Sleypy: Warlord Concept
7 months ago  ::  Nov 15, 2012 - 3:23PM #1
sleypy
Date Joined: Jun 1, 2011
Posts: 1,346
Based the feedback I made changes 
Level Weapon Attack Expertise Dice Save Bonus DC Class Features
1 +2 1d4 +1 Expertise, Knack for Leadership
2 +2 1d6 +1 Maneuver
3 +2 2d6 +2  
4 +3 2d6 +2 Knack for Leadership Benefit
5 +3 2d6 +2  
6 +3 2d6 +2 Maneuver
7 +3 2d6 +2  
8 +3 2d8 +2 Maneuver
9 +3 2d8 +3  
10 +4 3d10 +3 Maneuver

Level 1: Expertise
   Benefit: You gain a single expertise die, a d4. You can spend an expertise die to use a maneuver that you know. You must be able to take actions to spend an expertise die. How you regain expertise dice is determined by your knack for leadership. As you gain levels, the size of the die increases (from a d4 to a d6, for instance), and you gain additional dice, as noted on the Warlord table.
   At 1st level, you know the maneuver Directed Action.

Level 1: Knack for Leadership

 
Tactical Leader
   When you start combat you start with all your expertise dice spent. At the end of each of your turns, you gain an additional expertise dice equal to the round of combat or 3 (whichever is lower). In addition, you gain training in knowledge warfare, sense motive and two additional (skills of your choice: intimidate, persuade).   

Level 2: Tactical Expertise
   When you use an action to use directed action maneuver, you can use the same action to spend unused warlord’s expertise dice to perform maneuver using an ally or allies in place of yourself.


Level 6: Tactical Master
  When you use the directed action, you can use directed action a second time as your reaction.


 Inspiring Leader
   When you use an action to make an attack without using a maneuver, you regain all of your spent expertise dice. In addition, you gain training in knowledge warfare, perform and two additional (skills of your choice: intimidate, persuade).    


Level 2: Inspired Expertise
  Choose one of the following options:

  • Inspiring Word (Option 1) -    Choose a living creature within 30' feet of you. Roll all the expertise dice and add their results. It regains hit points equal to the result.
  • Inspiring Word (Option 2)    Choose a living creature within 30' feet of you. Roll all the expertise dice and add their results. It's maximum and current hit points both increase by the result for 1 minute.
  • Alternative (Option 3)    Add parry to your warlords maneuver list. Any ally that can understand you can spend any of your warlord’s unspent expertise dice to use the parry maneuver.

 Level 2: Inspired Speech
  You warlord can spend 5 minutes giving a speech, performing a sing, or using other method to bolster your allies moral. When you finish your allies are immune to fear and cannot fall unconscious for 1 hour. This affect ends if you fall unconscious.

Level 6: Rally Allies
   Allies that can understand you can spend a 1 HD as a reaction. If an ally has no remanding hit dice they gain hit points equal to their constitution modifier or 1, whichever is lower.


 Strategic Leader
   At the end of each of your turns, you regain all of your spent expertise dice. In addition, you gain training in knowledge warfare, knowledge history and two additional (skills of your choice: intimidate, persuade).


 Level 2: Strategic Planning
   If you have a knowledge skill appropriate for a situation and at least 10 minutes to plan you can gain the benefit of one of the following options:

  • Anyone that can understand you can use the help action once on any ability checks related to the plan.
  • You double your number of expertise dice, but the additional dice can only be spent on actions related to the plan. The bonus dice do not refresh and you must spend these dice before you can benefit from this ability again.


Level 6: Contingency Plan
   You can use your Strategic Planning feature ignoring the 10 minute requirement. You can only use this ability once an encounter.


Maneuvers List

Cleave
Composed Attack
Danger Sense
Directed Action
Great Fortitude
Iron Will
Lightning Reflexes
Opportunist

Precise Shot
Protect
Spring Attack
Volley
Whirlwind Attack
Spring Attack
Vault


Edit: updated
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7 months ago  ::  Nov 15, 2012 - 3:33PM #2
mellored
Date Joined: Jul 8, 2008
Posts: 19,459
Not a bad start, but i'm not sure i like stratigic planning being just more dice.
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7 months ago  ::  Nov 15, 2012 - 3:39PM #3
Zardnaar
Date Joined: Apr 15, 2001
Posts: 8,249
Not bad. Strategic planning apply on knowledge checks?
Reducing a character to a list of dice rolls and modifiers is not role playing*

*pg 30, AD&D 2nd Ed DMG, 1989.
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7 months ago  ::  Nov 15, 2012 - 3:44PM #4
sleypy
Date Joined: Jun 1, 2011
Posts: 1,346

Nov 15, 2012 -- 3:39PM, Zardnaar wrote:

Not bad. Strategic planning apply on knowledge checks?



That was my thinking. That way you can also do planning for situations that aren't neccesarily combat related.

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Reality Refracted: Social Contracts
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Dreaming the Impossible Dream Show
Imagine a world where the first-time D&D player rolls stats, picks a race, picks a class, picks an alignment, and buys gear to create a character. Imagine if an experienced player, maybe the person helping our theoretical player learn the ropes, could also make a character by rolling ability scores and picking a race, class, feat, skills, class features, spells or powers, and so on. Those two players used different paths to build characters, but the system design allows them to play at the same table. -Mearl
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7 months ago  ::  Nov 15, 2012 - 4:05PM #5
Admiral-JCJF
Date Joined: Jul 3, 2009
Posts: 1,605

Nov 15, 2012 -- 3:44PM, sleypy wrote:

Nov 15, 2012 -- 3:39PM, Zardnaar wrote:

Not bad. Strategic planning apply on knowledge checks?



That was my thinking. That way you can also do planning for situations that aren't neccesarily combat related.




That aspect of it is good.

But perhaps this could also be used for other things, like initiative bonuses?

Also I don't feel that this is a complete Warlord, unless there are a lot more and vastly different maneuvers than what we have seen so far I don't think it can support the kind of "big bang" actions on an Encounter and/or Daily basis which are an important element of the class.    

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7 months ago  ::  Nov 15, 2012 - 4:15PM #6
greatfrito
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Date Joined: Jun 27, 2004
Posts: 8,249

Nov 15, 2012 -- 3:23PM, sleypy wrote:

I was thinking about the way I could see designing the warlord.



This is how I would expect to see a Warlord, at the moment, as well.

Knack for Leadership

You gain training in any two knowledge skills and one additional(skills of your choice: intimidate, knowledge, persuade or sense motive).



Maybe needs to be cleaned up?  Could do the Rogue thing, and associate Skills with sets of "appropriate" maneuvers.


Strategic Planning
If the warlord has at least 10 minutes to plan for a situation he has knowledge in, he can double the number of expertise dice. The additional dice can only be spent on actions related to that sphere of knowledge. Additionally, the bonus dice do not refresh until spending an additional 10 minutes to plan.



I get it, but I'm not sure I'm a huge fan.  I dunno.  It just seems open to super-nova abuse.  EDIT: Of the "and then the Fighter does 1d8+9d10 damage on his first attack" variety.


Tactical Expertise
During the warlord turn, he can spend expertise dice to grant an ally of his choice the use a maneuver the warlord has trained. The ally lose the maneuver at the end of the warlords next turn.



Yeah, this is what I would expect.  Just needs some clarification - like are you granting ED along with the maneuver, for the ally to actually use it?  Are you giving the character access to the maneuver, and then they activate it?  Can a Fighter ally, for example (though it's kind of moot, if everyone has ED) take the maneuver you give him, but use his own dice?  Are you making all choices with the maneuver?  Some of that is pretty nit-picky, but if I had to guess, I'd venture that folks could take that same "mechanic" and run it in very different ways at the table, as it stands.


Contingency Plan
You can make a contest check against either intelligent or charisma to use your Strategic Planning feature ignoring the 10 minute requirement. You can only use this ability once an encounter.



Eh, really not a fan.  But I think it goes hand-in-hand with my concerns with Strategic Planning.  Also, random ("random") access to your abilities is a pet peeve.


Unique Maneuvers List
(Forth Coming)



Well the good news is you only need like 5, tops.



Seriously though, if you're having the Warlord just give out maneuvers, and the other characters actually use them, there's very little reason why they won't just significantly overlap the Fighter, Rogue, or Whatever.  Heck, honestly, this could easily (easily) just be done as a Fighter class option (though I'd say the same for the Rogue and - to a lesser extent - the monk, at the moment).


Healing
Would be a set of maneuvers that way you can have multiple healing options and they are easy to add/remove. Tactical Expertise would allow allies to take advantage of the healing maneuver.



Yeah, "healing as maneuvers" is the obvious way to go with it.  You could easily do both "inspiring healing" abilities, and "first aid" abilities (that would be granted to allies to use, obviously).
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(And no, my comments on this forum are not of the same tone or quality as my actual survey feedback.)

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7 months ago  ::  Nov 15, 2012 - 4:23PM #7
sleypy
Date Joined: Jun 1, 2011
Posts: 1,346

Nov 15, 2012 -- 4:05PM, Admiral-JCJF wrote:

Nov 15, 2012 -- 3:44PM, sleypy wrote:

Nov 15, 2012 -- 3:39PM, Zardnaar wrote:

Not bad. Strategic planning apply on knowledge checks?



That was my thinking. That way you can also do planning for situations that aren't neccesarily combat related.




That aspect of it is good.

But perhaps this could also be used for other things, like initiative bonuses?

Also I don't feel that this is a complete Warlord, unless there are a lot more and vastly different maneuvers than what we have seen so far I don't think it can support the kind of "big bang" actions on an Encounter and/or Daily basis which are an important element of the class.    



I consider the ability to increase your dice significantly before and during combat to be fairly significant. It is limited in a way, but since a knowledge warefare exist its not often you can't at least have the opportunity. I was actually leaning more to it might be too much of a nova actually, but I wanted to start somewhere.

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Dreaming the Impossible Dream Show
Imagine a world where the first-time D&D player rolls stats, picks a race, picks a class, picks an alignment, and buys gear to create a character. Imagine if an experienced player, maybe the person helping our theoretical player learn the ropes, could also make a character by rolling ability scores and picking a race, class, feat, skills, class features, spells or powers, and so on. Those two players used different paths to build characters, but the system design allows them to play at the same table. -Mearl
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7 months ago  ::  Nov 15, 2012 - 6:53PM #8
sleypy
Date Joined: Jun 1, 2011
Posts: 1,346
- Reword tactical expertise
- Added the warlords manuevers 

Tactical Expertise
 You can spend expertise dice to grant an ally of your choice expertise dice  equal to the number of dice you spend. This dice can be used only with maneuvers on the warlords maneuver list. The ally lose the maneuver at the end of the warlords next turn.

Directed Action
   Effect
: You can spend up to two expertise dice to grant an ally an action against a creature of your choice you can see. On a hit using a weapon, roll all the expertise dice you grant, and add up their results. The damage gains a bonus equal to that total.
  This attack can't be granted by Tactical Expertise.

Inspiring Words (Option 1)
   Choose a living creature within 30' feet of you. Roll all the expertise dice and add their results. It regains hit points equal to the result.


Inspiring Words (Option 2)
   Choose a living creature within 30' feet of you. Roll all the expertise dice and add their results. It's maximum and current hit points both increase by the result for 1 minute.

Inspiring Words (Option 3)
   Replace the inspiring word maneuver with the parry maneuver on the Warlord Maneuver List.


Love 4e?  Concerned about its future? join the Old Guard of 4th Edition
Reality Refracted: Social Contracts
D & D: A Documentary Kickstarter (http://kck.st/SyKNzf)


Dreaming the Impossible Dream Show
Imagine a world where the first-time D&D player rolls stats, picks a race, picks a class, picks an alignment, and buys gear to create a character. Imagine if an experienced player, maybe the person helping our theoretical player learn the ropes, could also make a character by rolling ability scores and picking a race, class, feat, skills, class features, spells or powers, and so on. Those two players used different paths to build characters, but the system design allows them to play at the same table. -Mearl
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7 months ago  ::  Nov 15, 2012 - 7:14PM #9
sleypy
Date Joined: Jun 1, 2011
Posts: 1,346

Knack for Leadership

You gain training in any two knowledge skills and one additional(skills of your choice: intimidate, knowledge, persuade or sense motive).



Maybe needs to be cleaned up?  Could do the Rogue thing, and associate Skills with sets of "appropriate" maneuvers.




I was using a format similiar to the format for Monks. I'll work on that.


Strategic Planning
If the warlord has at least 10 minutes to plan for a situation he has knowledge in, he can double the number of expertise dice. The additional dice can only be spent on actions related to that sphere of knowledge. Additionally, the bonus dice do not refresh until spending an additional 10 minutes to plan.



I get it, but I'm not sure I'm a huge fan.  I dunno.  It just seems open to super-nova abuse.  EDIT: Of the "and then the Fighter does 1d8+9d10 damage on his first attack" variety.

Tactical Expertise


During the warlord turn, he can spend expertise dice to grant an ally of his choice the use a maneuver the warlord has trained. The ally lose the maneuver at the end of the warlords next turn.



Yeah, this is what I would expect.  Just needs some clarification - like are you granting ED along with the maneuver, for the ally to actually use it?  Are you giving the character access to the maneuver, and then they activate it?  Can a Fighter ally, for example (though it's kind of moot, if everyone has ED) take the maneuver you give him, but use his own dice?  Are you making all choices with the maneuver?  Some of that is pretty nit-picky, but if I had to guess, I'd venture that folks could take that same "mechanic" and run it in very different ways at the table, as it stands.



I reworded tactical expertise so hopefully that clarifies things better. The initial wording wasn't my intent.

Contingency Plan
You can make a contest check against either intelligent or charisma to use your Strategic Planning feature ignoring the 10 minute requirement. You can only use this ability once an encounter.



Eh, really not a fan.  But I think it goes hand-in-hand with my concerns with Strategic Planning.  Also, random ("random") access to your abilities is a pet peeve.



Hopefully rewording of Tactical Expertise fix this somewhat. I also removed the check from it..

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Reality Refracted: Social Contracts
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Dreaming the Impossible Dream Show
Imagine a world where the first-time D&D player rolls stats, picks a race, picks a class, picks an alignment, and buys gear to create a character. Imagine if an experienced player, maybe the person helping our theoretical player learn the ropes, could also make a character by rolling ability scores and picking a race, class, feat, skills, class features, spells or powers, and so on. Those two players used different paths to build characters, but the system design allows them to play at the same table. -Mearl
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7 months ago  ::  Nov 15, 2012 - 7:37PM #10
sleypy
Date Joined: Jun 1, 2011
Posts: 1,346

Nov 15, 2012 -- 3:33PM, mellored wrote:

Not a bad start, but i'm not sure i like stratigic planning being just more dice.




How about something like this:


Strategic Planning
If you have a knowledge skill appropriate for a situation and at least 10 minutes to plan you can gain the benefit of one of the following options:

  • Anyone that can understand you can use the help action once on any ability checks related to the plan.
  • You double your number of expertise dice, but the additional dice can only be spent on actions related to the plan. The bonus dice do not refresh and you must spend these dice before you can benefit from this ability again.



Love 4e?  Concerned about its future? join the Old Guard of 4th Edition
Reality Refracted: Social Contracts
D & D: A Documentary Kickstarter (http://kck.st/SyKNzf)


Dreaming the Impossible Dream Show
Imagine a world where the first-time D&D player rolls stats, picks a race, picks a class, picks an alignment, and buys gear to create a character. Imagine if an experienced player, maybe the person helping our theoretical player learn the ropes, could also make a character by rolling ability scores and picking a race, class, feat, skills, class features, spells or powers, and so on. Those two players used different paths to build characters, but the system design allows them to play at the same table. -Mearl
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