|
8 months ago ::
Oct 13, 2012 - 4:25PM
#21
|
Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
|
I find a sweet spot of 60-70% worked best for me.
A normal monster hits a normally defended PCs 60% of the time. An accurate monster hits a heavily armored PCS 60% of the time. A inaccurate monster hits a soft PC 60% of the time
Basically the monster's attack bonus should be around the AC value of Medium armor- 12.
Orzel, Halfelven son of Zel, Mystic Ranger, Bane to Dragons, Death to Undeath, Killer of Abyssals, King of the Wilds.
Constitution Based Class for Next!
|
|
|
|
8 months ago ::
Oct 13, 2012 - 4:39PM
#22
|
Date Joined:
Feb 22, 2012
|
Monsters absolutely need a better chance to hit, lower damage (on average) and more hit points. Some people might find it cool to need 60 Goblins for an average encounter against four PCs. I'm not one of them. Give the goblins +2 to hit, give them 1d6 damage (or even keep the -1), and give them their max hit points of 6. Overall this should make for a more fun goblin for everyone. He will still likely go down with one hit from the fighter, but will survive a horrible roll. Your avarage Fighter/cleric doesn't even need to roll damage on these goblins.
I get it that the goblins are a poor attempt to revive the idea of minions. Not to mention any monster trait that requires disadvantage should never be used. The monsters are already horrible enough they don't need help. With the corrent monster stats a monster with disadvantage is likely never going to hit, and so over time DMs will find they aren't using those traits at all. So I think all the traits with disadvantage should be tossed out or rewritten to not include disadvantage. Yes it makes since that when you Rage you get disadvantage, but the problem is in practice the trait is no longer usuable. (Just wait till a PC Barbarian gets disadvantage when he rages and see how fun it is, I'd almost assume that wizards won't even try that idea).
By the way, I'm perfectly okay with the orc doing 1d12 damage + ability modifier. I'd still like the orc to have a better chance to hit, and more hit points even if that does increase his level to 3 or 4.
Too many monsters have multiattack in my opinion. Also did I miss a rule or does monsters do full damage with multiattack while PCs only do half? Some of the monsters really need better AC. The AC seems consistently low.
|
|
|
|
8 months ago ::
Oct 13, 2012 - 4:52PM
#23
|
|
|
I personally think there shouldn't be a gap of more than 6 points between the lowest AC and highest AC party member. That way monster accuracy can be set to the mid point of +3 or +4 so that around 70% to 80% hits.
Its ridiculous that monsters can't hit anyone except the Wizard on a roll of 15.
|
|
|
|
8 months ago ::
Oct 13, 2012 - 5:34PM
#24
|
Date Joined:
Feb 22, 2012
|
I personally think there shouldn't be a gap of more than 6 points between the lowest AC and highest AC party member. That way monster accuracy can be set to the mid point of +3 or +4 so that around 70% to 80% hits.
Its ridiculous that monsters can't hit anyone except the Wizard on a roll of 15.
I would agree. This gets really hard since a typical wizard has a DC of 12 starting out and few ways to improve it. A Hill Dwarf fighter with a shield could have at most a DC 18 startign out. (which is actually what you said). So I think on average right now the AC is within 6 points and will typcially be a lot less. But 6 points is stil huge. A goblin will hit the fighter only if he rolls a 19 or 20 but will hit the wizard on a 13 or higher. At +2 the goblin will at least need a 16 to hit the dwarf but now hits the Wizard on a 10. I think the way to solve this would be to allow the wizard to wear some basic type of armor. Maybe a special wizards robes that are magically enchanted to grant +2 to AC.
I think the real desparity here is going to end up being in hit points.
|
|
|
|
8 months ago ::
Oct 13, 2012 - 6:15PM
#25
|
Date Joined:
Sep 25, 2009
|
@mellored
I happen to disagree with you there, at least for moderate values of luck factor. Sure at the far extremes luck becomes important enough to trump tactics and render them meaningless, but I think that value is far far away from the 35-45% hit ratios I'd like to see.
Actually, the luck factor is not the same between 90% hit chance and 90% miss chance (assuming damage and HP are modified to result in the same average durability). Because the 90% hit chance will pretty much always kill you on the "expected" round, while the 90% miss chance could kill you pretty much any time. That said, if you were right, than why would you complain about me wanting to swap 65% for 35%, since apparently, they're the same luck factor and by extension tactics factor?
@lawolf
I would rather play the game where you have a 40% chance of hitting and do 6.25 points of damage, personally. Reductio ad absurdum only actually works as an argumentative tactic if your opponent recognizes no limiting principle at which to halt. I fully recognize the dangers of swing, but I think the sweet spot at which the marginal cost and benefit equalize is a little bit higher than you do. I don't want the corner case, and my argument does not require me to want it, so quit trying to defeat an argument nobody is making.
@ Doug
I agree with english language that it's a poorly designed tank that requires a bottleneck to function, and a poorly designed dungeon that results in frequent encounter-length bottlenecks. That 5e tanks and playtest dungeons are poorly designed does not defeat my position, nor that a more careful reading of the playtest packet than I've bothered with can break the AC curve. I'm not advocating for monsters that can only hit on a 20. I'm advocating for monsters that hit on a 10-16 depending on how AC optimized the target is (ie +2 average, not far off from where it is now, at least once kobolds and goblins stop being idiots). If I'm wrong about where the curve is, then by all means make them more accurate. I'm not advocating for particular bonuses, I'm advocating for hit ratios. While you're right that, given more accurate monsters, a +4 from total defense would not be as overpowered, it does not follow that one is the cause and the other is the effect. Each affects the other simultaneously, and correcting either imbalance would solve the problem. I would prefer to solve the problem by reducing the +4 than by making monsters substantially more accurate, not only because I prefer the systemic rhythm of lower values but because inevitably the ability will be used by the high end of the AC curve more than the low end and I would prefer to limit that range as much as possible. I will grant that this is a preference. I grant you yours, please grant me mine.
|
|
|
|
8 months ago ::
Oct 13, 2012 - 11:31PM
#26
|
Date Joined:
Mar 26, 2007
|
No sure why they dropped the +2 bonus from the first packet (the minotaur now needs to roll a 16 to hit a mountain dwarf in plate with a shield).
|
|
|
|
8 months ago ::
Oct 14, 2012 - 2:06PM
#27
|
Date Joined:
Apr 16, 2009
|
4e has defending classes that do fine without a chokepoint.
That's in large part because most 4E defenders *create* chokepoints. Wherever they are, that's a chokepoint.
"The world does not work the way you have been taught it does. We are not real as such; we exist within The Story. Unfortunately for you, you have inherited a condition from your mother known as Primary Protagonist Syndrome, which means The Story is interested in you. It will find you, and if you are not ready for the narrative strands it will throw at you..." - from Footloose
|
|
|
|
8 months ago ::
Oct 14, 2012 - 3:27PM
#28
|
|
|
4e has defending classes that do fine without a chokepoint.
That's in large part because most 4E defenders *create* chokepoints. Wherever they are, that's a chokepoint.
Are you implying that's a bad thing?
|
|
|