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8 months ago ::
Oct 07, 2012 - 10:17PM
#11
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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Ok which one of you grognards complained about the sorcs? The sorcerer transformation is an awesome idea that needs to stay, because otherwise they're just pretty wizards again.
I am gathering stones for the lynching presently dont start without me.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 07, 2012 - 10:26PM
#12
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Date Joined:
Mar 31, 2012
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No see if we get armor as DR and put an end to this 3e saving throw garbage what we can do is set each character up with three defenses (will, fort, and ref). Then have attacks target whichever of those is most appropriate, with ref taking up most but not all of the attacks that used to target AC. Then we have a unified mecahnic for attack resolution instead of this sloppy mess we got now.
The problem is that DR is mathematically less capable of balance than AC. For DR, in order to achieve a level of danger that's not too lethal for squishier and less well armored classes, but not too easy for more heavily armored fighters to shrug off, there's a very thin sweet spot of damage, and this sweet spot is not universal, since a group where the most heavily armored person is wearing Hide armor will have a much harder time than a group with all Paladins in full plate. And then you get Fighters quickly becoming overpowered, since they can shrug off more damage, essentially neutralizing smaller threats, and severely weakening larger ones.
I am currently raising funds to run for President in 2016. Too many administrations have overlooked the international menace, that is Carmen Sandiego. I shall devote any and all necessary military resources to bring her to justice.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 07, 2012 - 10:38PM
#13
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Date Joined:
May 27, 2012
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The problem is that DR is mathematically less capable of balance than AC.
It would be easier to balance over-all if they kept the numbers smaller, and nobody was rolling seven dice to determine damage.
The metagame is not the game.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 07, 2012 - 10:43PM
#14
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Date Joined:
Oct 26, 2004
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Which is why armor applies a penalty to reflex, dnd historically gives Higher armor class to unarmored characters anyway, so the best way I can see to deal with armor's irrelevance is to set it up as a choice between getting hit less often, and taking less damage when you do get hit.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 07, 2012 - 11:10PM
#15
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Date Joined:
Jun 21, 2012
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If no version of D&D previously has hit the sweet spot, what makes you think this one will? Taste is subjective. I respect anyone's right to pick and choose their favourites, but I think any attempt to make anything "something for everyone" ultimately results in poor work. This playtest and the edition's overall goal to appeal to everyone inside the D&D community is undermining their work, even now. Trying to include folks who never liked D&D in the first place and only remember it as their gateway drug will only make matters worse.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 07, 2012 - 11:18PM
#16
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CE dice are great, I'll give you that.
While Sorcerers weren't well distinguished from Wizards, I'd hardly say that adding a random mechanic (no matter how cool it is) is really a solution, especially when the fluff of that mechanic suggests they shouldn't be casting Wizard spells yet they are.
Nothing about Warlocks, both in the word itself and in the class prior to 4E, suggests they should be striking deals for power. Warlocks are oath breakers, or thieves of magic power. They don't make pacts. They break them. Their power is self centric if not downright self centered.
Sorcerers and Warlocks are some of the worst parts of DDN. They've been warped and shoehorned by the intertwining of fluff and mechanics into warped visages of their former selves. They've been shackled into casting Wizard spells when their power base is nothing like a Wizard's. One could make a case for them not even being arcane in nature, yet for homogeneity they are listed as arcane classes.
In short, Sorcerers and Warlocks in DDN are just awful.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 07, 2012 - 11:47PM
#17
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Date Joined:
May 25, 2012
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That's because warlocks and sorcerers were never supposed to be part of DDN. The playtest was supposed to be about the core elements of the game, not fringe johnny-come-lately pseudoclasses which properly belong in a later module, if at all. But enough people whined, so they got these underdone, half-realized sorta-wizards that are even more confusingly lame than in previous editions. Blame those who are pushing for their pet classes and fluff before the core mechanics are even settled out.
And then join me in the fight for a streamlined, stripped-down core.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 08, 2012 - 12:02AM
#18
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@rampant Have you looked at the Fortified/Armor HP alternative to DR in the Armor Remake thread? What do you feel is the advantage of DR to that, taking HP scaling and bounded accuracy in account? Which is why armor applies a penalty to reflex, dnd historically gives Higher armor class to unarmored characters anyway, so the best way I can see to deal with armor's irrelevance is to set it up as a choice between getting hit less often, and taking less damage when you do get hit.
This is precisely the intention with the armor change I suggested.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 08, 2012 - 12:22AM
#19
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That's because warlocks and sorcerers were never supposed to be part of DDN. The playtest was supposed to be about the core elements of the game, not fringe johnny-come-lately pseudoclasses which properly belong in a later module, if at all. But enough people whined, so they got these underdone, half-realized sorta-wizards that are even more confusingly lame than in previous editions. Blame those who are pushing for their pet classes and fluff before the core mechanics are even settled out.
And then join me in the fight for a streamlined, stripped-down core.
DDN has always been about every class that has ever appeared in a "PHB1". That includes Sorcerers (3.X) and Warlocks (4th Ed). They've always been planned as a part of DDN since before there was a public playtest. People whining didn't them added, and whining wouldn't have gotten them removed.
I will not join the Dark Side, either. I'm an advocate of a DDN with more classes and races, not less. My ideal DDN PHB would be a 2E Player's Option inspired classless, levelless point buy system with abilities from literally every class ever printed. The core needs to be larger if it is going to bring the disparate factions of D&D together. A smaller core is one that excludes parts of the player base.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 08, 2012 - 12:37AM
#20
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Date Joined:
Jul 31, 2007
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I am gathering stones for the lynching presently dont start without me.
Save some rocks for me. I'll bring the slingshots.
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