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Oct 6, 2012 -- 9:44PM, Rhenny wrote:

After playing a number of sessions (5) with my group, we've grown to like the healing in D&DNext.  

Yeah we like it pretty well too. Seems a bit contrived at times but it does the job.

After 1st level (3rd and up especially) the HD of healing outside of combat does tend to free up the cleric to do more than just hold spells in case others need to be healed.   That was one of our concerns earlier in the playtest.  I'm glad to see that the cleric in our game has not felt limited to healing...he's used Searing Light and Turn Undead pretty freely.

My DMPC is a cleric and I've found this to also be the case, but it depends on how many encounters so some groups that like to cram in the action throughout the game day.

I got narced about the short rest because after every combat players started badgering me about whether it had been 10 minutes yet. We solved it by getting rid of the 10 minute convention and making a point to give the players moments to rest in the narrative that made sense. Sometimes it's 1 minute, sometimes it's an hour. Keeping it loose allowed the players to stop thinking about the short rest as this thing they had to do and we could focus on the flow of the game.

Another thing we've noticed is that since HD of healing (self healing) can only be used outside of combat, combats themselves always tend to develop tension (when they are challenging enough for the PCs) since PCs can't draw on the HD healing mechanic until they can rest for 10 minutes.  We like this better than being able to use "second wind" during combat in 4e.

Yes. I hated second wind use in combat, it made danger seem, well, not very dangerous. It also gives the healer role back to healing magic 'cause that's your combat healing method. It makes those characters that do have healing more important.

Finally, having more HD of healing as PCs level up really does extend the adventuring day.  After playing 3rd level PCs, we can see how it is quite possible to string together a longer adventuring day, where PCs deal with nearly a dozen encounters (some easy, moderate and hard...some non-combat, etc.).  This works even without a cleric in the party.

I'm not 100% with you on this one. HD only heals a number of dice equal to the number of dice the PC has for HP anyway, so really it potentially restores their hp from 1 to full once per day. It's a die roll so it's variable but the healing surges allowed for a longer day because 1) they could be used in combat and 2) they allowed for more than your total health to be self healed over the course of the day.

I don't like healing surges because I felt they blunted the tension in the adventuring day and in individual fights. HD is actually a nerf from the HS in this instance.

What are some of your reactions/feelings about the HD of healing mechanic?   Has it grown on anyone else?

I suspect there will be variations available to make them more like healing surges. I think it's likely the HD will be used for other things as well and I hope it does.

On the whole I like how it keeps self healing without taking the heal job away from the healers.

As to Seerow, at least give a bit more detailed feedback.

Fine. I hate hit dice, I have from the start, and nothing in the playtest has changed to address my reasons for hating them. No, cutting HP down, but leaving damage the same (and increasing it in many areas), and not changing healing at all, does not address my issues.

1) The value of healing provided is too low. Hit dice do not provide enough healing to let a group get by without a cleric.

2) Hit dice are too random. Have any of you actually played in a game without someone using the healer specialty? Getting 2 or 3 hp back on your hit die for the day is pathetic, and forces the group to set up camp early. Hit points are already low enough that if you go out doing anything at below max hp, you're going to likely die to the first thing that hits you.

3) Hit dice don't actually become more valuable as you level, they merely become more granular. At level 1, you have 1 hit die that is worth roughly as much as your hit points, which you can only spend once. At level 20, you will have 20 hit dice, which in total are worth the same relative amount as that one hit die at level 1. While this allows for more granular spending, in total all 20 of them are worth roughly as much as the single hit die at level 1. 

3a) Not really a point on its own, but I do find a lot of people don't seem to recognize point 3. I frequently see people in the Warlord threads trying to tie Warlord healing to hit dice, having the Warlord allow allies to spend a single hit die with an action. This is an example of an action that becomes less valuable the higher level you are. While I haven't seen this reflected in the designers yet (which is the main reason it doesn't get its own point) it is something I'm keeping an eye out for.

4)  I disagree completely with the OP about Second Wind taking tension out of the game. What takes tension out of the game is having low HP totals and almost no healing, so there is no back and forth. When every die roll is something that can result in character death, it doesn't build tension, it is something players just get used to, and it eventually just becomes a drag when yet another character died to that random hit. I want second wind style abilities. I want there to be a back and forth, give and take, in hit point totals. Yes, there is no tension at the start of the fight because you are confident in having a reserve. Towards the end of a tough fight as your resources are running out and you know this needs to end now or people will start dying is where tension really shows though, and that's something I don't see at all in DDN right now.




The only reason the mechanic even remotely works right now is because the common monster to-hit bonuses are so low that players can go through a full encounter while only taking a single hit. I highly doubt this is something that will last. The design rests on enemies only hitting 10% of the time, and seriously injuring or killing players when they do hit. That isn't something I find satisfying, and is not a design I think is sustainable in the long run.

Oct 7, 2012 -- 2:42AM, OrwellianHaggis wrote:

I'm pro HD aswell. It's not my ideal healing system, but its sufficient to work and it ties a lot of features together while giving out a simple resource to manage. Thats a good few plusses in my book.

As to Seerow, at least give a bit more detailed feedback.

One issue I'm having is players not keeping track of healing kit uses, but I've houseruled that away and just use a "chance to break/be expended fully" by rolling a 1 on a d20. I'm not fussed about the cost of them and if its on a d10 players tend to bring several backups.

The issue I do have with the healing mechanic itself is how hit or miss it is, I do feel constitution should allow some rerolls or a minimum score from the HD. Theres nothing more brutal than rolling a one in a tense situation with a fighter while a wizard rolls a mighty 4.

I do depart with your theory on the HD extending the adventuring day however, I get the impression thats more to do with the to hit values for monsters. Players are simply taking less damage overall while dishing it out rather regularly. Luck plays a lot more of a part on monster damage right now.

But overall yes... I'm all for HD being a continuing theme. 

have to tell you... it does.

you add your con mod to the roll so technically your minimum is your con mod +1

But actually, I don't want a group without a cleric-like class to have much recourse to healing in combat and I want classes that do have healing spells to bring that advantage to the table. I realise that's my personal preference; there should be some options for people to set the bar on their own.