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8 months ago ::
Oct 05, 2012 - 12:50PM
#21
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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Something else Mellored brought up that I think really needs delving into is is swapping additional d6's of Rogue's Sneak Attack die for alternative stuff. Something akin to the Ambush feats of 3E were you spend X-amount of d6 die to put status effects onto monsters. I think that would complement Fighter's Combat Superiority die fairly well.
I'm just worried that it might step on CS dice's toes a bit too much. I mean, it'd be good for the rogue, but it's really similar. Uniqueness is something to be valued.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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8 months ago ::
Oct 05, 2012 - 1:04PM
#22
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Something else Mellored brought up that I think really needs delving into is is swapping additional d6's of Rogue's Sneak Attack die for alternative stuff. Something akin to the Ambush feats of 3E were you spend X-amount of d6 die to put status effects onto monsters. I think that would complement Fighter's Combat Superiority die fairly well.
I'm just worried that it might step on CS dice's toes a bit too much. I mean, it'd be good for the rogue, but it's really similar. Uniqueness is something to be valued.
No more then the cleric steps on the toes of the wizard.
That said, it i agree it shoudln't be used as a catch-all for martial classes. There's other mechanics that can be used.
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F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 05, 2012 - 1:16PM
#23
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Date Joined:
Sep 19, 2006
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I think if you keep the effects different, there would no toes being stepped on. For example, much of the Fighter's CS die is focused on reducing damage (either to him/her self and others), granting disadvantage for attacks against adjacent allies, dealing more damage, knocking people around or prone. A Rogue's ambush gimmick would deal with deafening foes, blinding foes, maybe granting automatic Advantage for another's attack, adding penaltis to AC, dropping enemie's HD, reducing an enemie's movement to Zero, removing speech, etc. Think about the Rogue who sneaks up on the wizard, sure they could drain all their SA into damage and possibly drop them in 1 round OR they could subtraced a die or two and Throat Punch them, disabling their voice for a round. No voice = extreamy difficult to cast spells with verbal components (or stopping them outright).
The way in which to do this is to make Ambush style tactics work exclusively against ONE target while allowing the Fighter to affect the one or more enemies multiple times per round (via additional CS die). Also, making as little overlap as possible. Ambush maneuvers wouldn't knock prone, or disarm, or push someone back 5-feet. They disable, reduce, or render ineffective ONE specific target for a limited duration. You could even make it so the more SA die you drain into an Ambush attack effects the target longer or makes it harder to resist. A Rogue, using Throat Punch for example again, can drain 1 SA die to an attack and make it hard for the spellcaster to cast magic. Draining 2 SA di[c]e renders all spellcasting ineffective for 1 round automatically. Draining 3 SA di[c]e renders spellcasting ineffective for 2 rounds, etc...
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8 months ago ::
Oct 05, 2012 - 1:26PM
#24
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Date Joined:
Aug 13, 2004
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I don't think that skills or sneak attack should be defining features for the rogues. After all, most rogues in fantasy start their story after having really botched a "job". Their more defining trait most of the time is how they handle the result of multiple failures. And a lot are more combat disrupters than combattants at all.
Oooh! That gives me an idea. What if the Rogue's primary feature is a sort of "un-do" button? Like, roll the skill, pass or fail, but if you fail you can turn the failure around in a cool way.
In one of the panels, the devs talked about Indiana Jones as being a quintessential rogue. I'm not so sure I agree, but if thats what they are going for, lets roll with it. There are countless times where it can be interpreted that Indy fails a skill check (or even attack rolls). He's not failing all the time, but he does have setbacks. Except nearly every time, he comes out of that setback in a cool and interesting way. Granted, this is at the whims of the writer, but how would we translate that experience to the tabletop?
Maybe the rogue has a feature that allows upon failure to immediately make another skill check at a lower difficulty to do something to compensate for the failed check, so that they suffer no negative consequences to their resources, but may change game state (they still fall off the ledge, but they lose no HP, for example). Kinda like a glorified saving throw mechanic.
Just brainstorming...
Oh, and Mellored? Great interview!
Yes, and some rogues could be enablers, tricking enemies to open them to free attacks from allies, or tricking an enemy adjacent to the target into attacking it.
Others could be able ot dodge any attack and be able to hit back when attackers are adjacent.
Sneak attack at melee range is dangerous and courageous. And I don't think that courage and willing to take risks are the more common qualities among fantasy rogues. (Note that I totally consider swashbucklers as fighters, their fighting skills were too high for not beeing melee combat specialists).
"They are making it clear that when modern design and common sense come into conflict with tradition, tradition wins." - thecasualoblivion
"Vancian isn't broken, you just have to set your game to the wizard's clock!" - Oxybe
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"Encounters are the heart of the AD&D game" - PHB AD&D 2nd edition.
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- Gary Gygax
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8 months ago ::
Oct 05, 2012 - 1:42PM
#25
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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I consider using one against the other to be a classic martial heroic move... Figher yes, Rogue yes, Warlord and Ranger hell yes ....so to tell the truth guys if CS dice cant be used for all of them lets just say I think the game will suffer from bloatitis again.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 05, 2012 - 2:34PM
#26
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Date Joined:
Feb 19, 2009
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"Figher yes, Rogue yes, Warlord and Ranger hell yes"
...and the poor Paladin presses his nose against the CS shop window...
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8 months ago ::
Oct 05, 2012 - 3:00PM
#27
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Good interview.
It is nice to see another perspective put forward in such an articulate and precise manner.
Pro DnD Member of the Axis of Awesome Fighters: Using socks to kill monsters since 2012 DnD Next: Now with more then 4 minutes of Roleplay per gaming hour Spoiler:
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8 months ago ::
Oct 05, 2012 - 3:07PM
#28
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Date Joined:
Sep 19, 2006
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"Figher yes, Rogue yes, Warlord and Ranger hell yes"
...and the poor Paladin presses his nose against the CS shop window...
lol, good thing I wansn't drinking my pop (or soda, depending on location) because it definitly would've come out my nose. Well done!
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8 months ago ::
Oct 05, 2012 - 3:08PM
#29
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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8 months ago ::
Oct 05, 2012 - 5:10PM
#30
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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"Figher yes, Rogue yes, Warlord and Ranger hell yes"
...and the poor Paladin presses his nose against the CS shop window...
Its a damn impolite thing to do  duddly doright wouldnt approve....
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