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Switch to Forum Live View What's the reason for same statistic - diffrent equipment?
8 months ago  ::  Oct 02, 2012 - 1:52PM #21
Jenks
Date Joined: Apr 4, 2008
Posts: 2,497
I'm kind of in the boat of making armor cost representitive of what it would kind of actually cost. Plate is very time consuming and expensive, ergo a high cost. Whereas hide armor is less in both areas, ero less cost. 

If you make everything accessible to everyone at 1st level, then seriously why not just let everyone pick 2 weapons and a piece of armor and be done with it. No sense in having starting gold at all if that's the mentality. This wouldn't be a terrible system, mind you. But like in 4th edition, equipment prices were scaled down so that a heavy armored fighter could afford everything he needed, so light armored, one weapon characters had a ton of gold left and nothing to spend it on :P That's not really any better.
My two copper.



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8 months ago  ::  Oct 02, 2012 - 2:02PM #22
BhaelFire
Date Joined: Jul 2, 2012
Posts: 703

Oct 2, 2012 -- 1:30PM, Ranger-of-Cormyr wrote:

Brigandine weighs you down, hence it's less good for skirmishers, who want to carry as little weight as possible.


Yeah I'll concede to that; It might be a better match in the medium category.


D&D Next - Basic and Expert Editions Show

I firmly believe that there should be two editions of the game; the core rules released as a "Basic" set and a more complicated expanded rules edition released as an "Expert" set. These two editions would provide separate entry points to the game; one for new players or players that want a more classic D&D game and another entry point for experienced gamers that want more options and all the other things they have come to expect from previous editions.

Also, they must release several rules modules covering the main elements of the game (i.e., classes, races, combat, magic, monsters, etc.) upon launch to further expand the game for those that still need more complexity in a particular element of the game.



Here's a mockup of the Basic Set I created.



(CLICK HERE TO VIEW LARGER IMAGE)
  


Basic Set


This boxed set contains a simple, "bare bones" edition of the game; the core rules. It's for those that want a rules-light edition of the game that is extremely modifiable or for new players that get intimidated easily by too many rules and/or options. The Basic Set contains everything needed to play with all the "classic" D&D races (i.e., Human, Dwarf, Elf, and Halfling) and classes (i.e., Cleric, Fighter, Rogue, Wizard) all the way up to maximum level (i.e., 20th Level).

The Basic boxed set contains:


Quick Start Rules
A "choose your own way" adventure intended as an intro to RPGs and basic D&D terms.

Player's Handbook
(Softcover, 125 pages)
Features rules for playing the classic D&D races and classes all the way up to 20th level.

Dungeon Master's Guide

(Softcover, 125 pages)
Includes the basic rules for dungeon masters.

Monster Manual
(Softcover, 100 pages)
Includes all the classic iconic monsters from D&D. 

Introductory Adventure
(Keep on the Borderlands)
An introductory adventure for beginning players and DMs.

Also includes: 

Character Sheets
Reference Sheets
Set of Dice




Expert Set


A set of hardbound rules that contains the core rules plus expanded races and classes, more spells and a large selection of optional rules modules — that is, pretty much everything that experienced players have come to expect. Each expert edition manual may be purchased separately, or in a boxed set. The Expert set includes:


Expert PHB (Hardcover, 225 pages. $35 Includes core rules plus 10 playable races, 10 character classes, expanded selection of spells and rules modules for players.)
Expert DMG (Hardcover, 250 pages. $35 Includes core rules plus expanded rules modules for DMs.)
Expert MM (Hardcover, 225 pages. $35 Includes an expanded list of monsters and creatures to challenge characters)




Expansions


These expansion rules modules can be used with both the Basic and Expert sets. Each expansion covers one specific aspect of the game, such as character creation, combat, spells, monsters, etc.) 


Hall of Heroes (Hardcover, 225 pages. $35 Includes a vast selection of playable character races and classes, new and old all in one book)
Combat and Tactics (Hardcover, 225 pages. $35 Includes dozens of new and old optional rules for combat all in one book)
Creature Compendium (Hardcover, 350 pages.$35 Includes hundreds of monsters, new and old all in one book)
The Grimoire (Hardcover, 225 pages. $35 Includes hundreds of new and old spells all in one book)












A Million Hit Points of Light: Shedding Light on Damage Show

A Million Hit Points of Light: Shedding Light on Damage and Hit Points


In my personal campaigns, I use the following system for damage and dying. It's a slight modification of the long-standing principles etsablished by the D&D game, only with a new definition of what 0 or less hit points means. I've been using it for years because it works really well. However, I've made some adjustments to take advantage of the D&D Next rules. I've decided to present the first part in a Q&A format for better clarity. So let's begin...


What are hit points?
The premise is very simple, but often misunderstood; hit points are an abstraction that represent the character's ability to avoid serious damage, not necessarily their ability to take serious damage. This is a very important distinction. They represent a combination of skillful maneuvering, toughness, stamina and luck. Some targets have more hit points because they are physically tougher and are harder to injure...others have more because they are experienced combatants and have learned how to turn near fatal blows into mere scratches by skillful maneuvering...and then others are just plain lucky. Once a character runs out of hit points they become vulnerable to serious life-threatening injuries.


So what exactly does it mean to "hit" with a successful attack roll, then?
It means that through your own skill and ability you may have wounded your target if the target lacks the hit points to avoid the full brunt of the attack. That's an important thing to keep in mind; a successful "hit" does not necessarily mean you physically damaged your target. It just means that your attack was well placed and forced the target to exert themselves in such a way as to leave them vulnerable to further attacks. For example, instead of severing the target's arm, the attack merely grazes them leaving a minor cut.


But the attack did 25 points of damage! Why did it only "graze" the target?
Because the target has more than 25 hit points. Your attack forced them to exert a lot of energy to avoid the attack, but because of their combat skill, toughness, stamina and luck, they managed to avoid being seriously injured. However, because of this attack, they may not have the reserves to avoid your next attack. Perhaps you knocked them off balance or the attack left them so fatigued they lack the stamina to evade another attack. It's the DM's call on how they want to narrate the exact reason the blow didn't kill or wound the target.


Yeah, but what about "touch" attacks that rely on physical contact?
Making physical contact with a target is a lot different than striking them, so these types of attacks are the exception. If a touch attack succeeds, the attacker manages to make contact with their target.


If hit points and weapon damage don't always represent actual damage to the target, then what does it represent?
Think of the damage from an attack as more like a "threat level" rather than actual physical damage that transfers directly to the target's body. That is, the more damage an attack does, the harder it is to avoid serious injury. For example, an attack that causes 14 points of damage is more likely to wound the target than 3 points of damage (depending on how many hit points the target has left). The higher the damage, the greater the chance is that the target will become seriously injured. So, an attack that does 34 points of damage could be thought of as a "threat level of 34." If the target doesn't have the hit points to negate that threat, they become seriously injured.


Ok, but shouldn't armor reduce the amount of damage delivered from an attack?
It does reduce damage; by making it harder for an attack to cause serious injury. A successful hit against an armored target suggests that the attack may have circumvented the target's armor by striking in a vulnerable area.


What about poison and other types of non-combat damage?
Hit point loss from non-physical forms of damage represents the character spitting the poison out just in time before it takes full strength or perhaps the poison just wasn't strong enough to affect them drastically, but still weakens them. Again, it's the DMs call on how to narrate the reasons why the character avoids serious harm from the damage.


If hit points don't don't represent actual damage then how does that make sense with spells like Cure Serious Wounds and other forms of healing like healer kits with bandages?
Hit points do represent some physical damage, just not serious physical damage. Healing magic and other forms of healing still affect these minor wounds just as well as more serious wounds. For example, bandaging up minor cuts and abrasions helps the character rejuvenate and relieve the pain and/or fatigue of hit point loss. The key thing to remember is that it's an abstraction that allows the DM freedom to interpret and narrate it as they see fit.

What if my attack reduces the target to 0 or less hit points?
If a player is reduced to 0 or less hit points they are wounded. If a monster or NPC is reduce to 0 or less hit points they are killed.


Why are monsters killed immediately and not players?
Because unless the monsters are crucial to the story, it makes combat resolution much faster. It is assumed that players immediately execute a coup de grace on wounded monsters as a finishing move.


What if a character is wounded by poison or other types of non-physical damage?
If a character becomes wounded from non-combat damage they still receive the effects of being wounded, regardless if they show any physical signs of injury (i.e., internal injuries are still considered injuries).


Ok. I get it...but what happens once a character is wounded?
See below.
 


Damage and Dying


Once a character is reduced to 0 or less hit points, they start taking real damage. In other words, their reserves have run out and they can no longer avoid taking serious damage.


  1. Characters are fully operational as long as they have 1 hit point or more. They may have minor cuts, bruises, and superficial wounds, but they are are not impaired significantly. 

  2. Once they reach 0 or less hit points, they become Wounded (see below).That is, they have sustained a wound that impairs their ability to perform actions.

  3. If they reach a negative amount of hit points equal or greater than their Constitution score, they are Incapacitated. This means they are in critical condition and could possibly die.

  4. Characters will die if their hit points reach a negative amount greater than their Constitution score, plus their current level.



Unharmed: 1 hp or more
Wounded: 0 hp or less
Incapacitated: -(Constitution) to -(Constitution+Level)
Dead: Less than -(Constitution +Level)


Wounded
When the character reaches 0 or less hit points they become wounded. Wounded characters receive disadvantage on all attacks and saving throws until they heal back up to 1 hit point or more. This allows for a transitory stage between healthy and dying, without having to mess around with impairment rules while the character still has hit points left.


Incapacitated
Characters begin dying when they reach a negative amount of hit points equal to their Constitution score. At which point, they must make a DC 10 Constitution saving throw on each of their following turns (the disadvantage from being wounded does not apply for these saving throws).

If successful, the character remains dying, but their condition does not worsen.


If the saving throw fails, another DC 10 Constitution saving throw must be made. If that one fails, the character succumbs to their wounds and dies. If successful, the character stabilizes and is no longer dying.

Finally, if a dying character receives first aid or healing at any point, they immediately stabilize.


Dead
Characters will die if they reach a negative amount of hit points equal to their Constitution, plus their current level. Thus, if an 8th level character with a Constitution score of 12 is down to 4 hit points then takes 24 points of damage (reducing their hit points to -20) the attack kills them outright.

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8 months ago  ::  Oct 04, 2012 - 9:57PM #23
warrl
Date Joined: Apr 16, 2009
Posts: 5,267

Oct 2, 2012 -- 1:52PM, Jenks wrote:

I'm kind of in the boat of making armor cost representitive of what it would kind of actually cost. Plate is very time consuming and expensive, ergo a high cost. Whereas hide armor is less in both areas, ero less cost.


Actually, chain is probably more time consuming than plate... on the other hand, plate requires the time of a specialist with heavy special equipment, whereas most of the time spent on chain can be handled by pretty much anyone anywhere. Making and cutting the rings in the first place takes a specialist, but that's it.

"The world does not work the way you have been taught it does. We are not real as such; we exist within The Story. Unfortunately for you, you have inherited a condition from your mother known as Primary Protagonist Syndrome, which means The Story is interested in you. It will find you, and if you are not ready for the narrative strands it will throw at you..." - from Footloose
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8 months ago  ::  Oct 04, 2012 - 11:04PM #24
Ranger-of-Cormyr
Date Joined: Apr 2, 2012
Posts: 372
Also, you can buy a mail hauberk from any armourer and, chances are, it'll fit you. A full plate harness has to be custom made to fit the person it was made for. It's like the difference between buying a suit from Primark, and getting one custom fitted by a professional tailor.

When I run modules, I don't let people use armour that they find straight away. I make them take it to an armourer and get it adjusted first.
Everything expressed in this post is my opinion, and should be taken as such. I can not declare myself to be the supreme authority on all matters...even though I am right!
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8 months ago  ::  Oct 09, 2012 - 5:46AM #25
Utn4
Date Joined: Oct 3, 2012
Posts: 2
after seeing the rate of acquisition of treasures (50gp/lvl*pc per adventuring day, 25gp/lvl*pc in a though encounter), I believe that the costs of the equipment are totally wrong. e.g. to earn a plate armor a character 10lvl should make 20 individual hard lvl encounters. I understand the reasons to make expensive equipment, etc. but I do not think the solution is as shown.
The best choice to make a balanced equipment system, is not to make it more and more expensive (in a very unrealistic way: a chain mail is not so cheap and a plate armor is not so expensive), but to balance the design of each single object.
And another thing: why should dexterity be less usefull with a heavy armour? You will probably be less able to dodge, but you can always parry, and deflect.
I would see much more sense in a disadvantage in all agility test (not only stealth) maybe in many strenght and constitution test (endurance, climbing, swimning etc.).
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8 months ago  ::  Oct 09, 2012 - 6:26AM #26
deroghann
Date Joined: Sep 29, 2012
Posts: 18

Oct 9, 2012 -- 5:46AM, Utn4 wrote:

why should dexterity be less usefull with a heavy armour?
You will probably be less able to dodge, but you can always parry, and deflect.
I would see much more sense in a disadvantage in all agility test (not only stealth) maybe in many
strength and constitution test (endurance, climbing, swimning etc.).





I guess that plate armor was really cumbersome, even if tailor made. The high AC is usually representative
of the difficulty to penetrate it or the way it is deflecting hits. My opinion is that it should also limit some if
not all agility advantages and have a minus on strength, agility and (why not) constitution tests.

And it is expensive (it should be). Only the richest knights could afford to buy one. Chainmail was more
common by far (at that time banded, lamellar, ring or splint mail were already obsolete)

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8 months ago  ::  Oct 09, 2012 - 10:28AM #27
Utn4
Date Joined: Oct 3, 2012
Posts: 2

Oct 9, 2012 -- 6:26AM, deroghann wrote:

I guess that plate armor was really cumbersome, even if tailor made. The high AC is usually representative of the difficulty to penetrate it or the way it is deflecting hits. My opinion is that it should also limit some if not all agility advantages and have a minus on strength, agility and (why not) constitution tests.

And it is expensive (it should be). Only the richest knights could afford to buy one. Chainmail was more common by far (at that time banded, lamellar, ring or splint mail were already obsolete)





Ok, chainmail should be less expensive than plate armor for sure, but probably the difference was not so significant, since in the late Middle Ages and Renaissance, entire garrisons were equipped with that kind of armor (heavy cavalry and heavy infantry). So, even ignoring every chronological aspects, this are two kind of armor that have been widely used in war and, as such, should be relatively common. Moreover I would consider that plate mail is very different from full plate (gothic plate) and much more available on the field.


But the point is not that. The plate armor in the rules could even cost 10.000gp for as much as I am concerned: the point is that a similar amount of money (5000gp), in my opinion, should be quite easy to be acquired by a high level character in a dungeon. And I want that a low lvl character find it more profitable to go into a dungeon and kill some monster than to assault the first lone heavy infantry he stumbles upon, since selling a plate armor is by far much more profitable than looting the dead body of about 40 5th lvl monsters


About the dexterity bonus to AC, I still find much more ‘realistic’ that good reflexes are taken into account, even with heavy armor, or, if you want to be VERY realistic, that heavy armor penalizes not only the ability to avoid damage, but also the ability to strike quickly and efficiently (penalty to hit). On the other side I believe that shield should be much more useful to avoid damage. IMO this could be a realism oriented revision of the armor table:

Light armor AC Bonus  
Padded 0 +1 vs bludgeoning 10lb – 5gp
Leather +1 15lb - 15gp
Chain shirt: +2 15lb - 50gp
Medium armor (disadvantage to stealth, climb, tumble, endurance, swim)  
Studded leather  +3 20lb – 30gp
Chain mail +5 50lb – 75gp 
Heavy armor (disadvantage to stealth, climb, endurance, -5feet mov. Unable to swim or tumble)
Splint mail   +6 60lb – 400gp
Plate mail +7 60lb – 500gp
Full plate +7 damage resistance 1, custom made 60lb – 5.000gp
Shields      
Steel buckler +1 you can use bows and bastard sword 1lb – 10gp
Small wooden  +2 6lb - 5gp
Large wooden +3 10lb - 5gp
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