I do not like the skill set of the 4th edition, but i LOVE the way melee classes now feel like they have some real cool powers. You can just attack, use an att will power, but when you want or need you can use a powerfull attack like a daily or encounter...it made me feel like the melee classes had some choices to...just like the magic classes in 2e and 3th edition.
now with the playtest and the new edition comming up...its back for the melee....oooh, i attack with my dagger...im done...next. Oh wait, im higher level..ill attack twice with my dagger...BORING.. so everyone will want to play a wizerd or that OP priest of the 3th edition...and dont remind me of a thief when the group is above level 7..Go away thief, anything you can do the wizard or priest can do better.
Im for renewal..but going back to older editions makes me wonder...why did we go further anyway then. If you take away the melee classes their cool powers..then it will be the magic classes AGAIN that will dominate the game at higher levels...Bang, oh, you did not make your save...your dead..bah.
I actually like the Combat Superiority mechanic as a replacement for powers if there are many options to use CS dice. If you look close, Martial Powers in 4e also do nothing than "make a basic attack with more damage" or "make two basic attacks without riders" or "make a basic attack in a close burst 1 that knocks prone". As long as CS has enough options to choose from, you can mix and match them to create the Power you want to use in that round.
I am also one of the guys who would like to see a CS mechanic for all Martial classes. The rogue should also be able to have more options in combat than hiding an sneak attacking.
However on the other hand, some of the spells currently written up for Cleric and especially Wizard are extremely unbalanced. They are much more powerful than 4e dailies and also more often available. And 4e wizard dailies are already quite powerful and can single-handedly win an encounter.
Don't fix the Fighter, fix the Wizard and the Cleric and give the Rogue interesting options.
I actually like the Combat Superiority mechanic as a replacement for powers if there are many options to use CS dice. If you look close, Martial Powers in 4e also do nothing than "make a basic attack with more damage" or "make two basic attacks without riders" or "make a basic attack in a close burst 1 that knocks prone". As long as CS has enough options to choose from, you can mix and match them to create the Power you want to use in that round.
I am also one of the guys who would like to see a CS mechanic for all Martial classes. The rogue should also be able to have more options in combat than hiding an sneak attacking.
However on the other hand, some of the spells currently written up for Cleric and especially Wizard are extremely unbalanced. They are much more powerful than 4e dailies and also more often available. And 4e wizard dailies are already quite powerful and can single-handedly win an encounter.
Don't fix the Fighter, fix the Wizard and the Cleric and give the Rogue interesting options.
Da-Ni: Sure, 4e at-wills were "melee basic PLUS" but...what about the encounters and dailys? In DDN, will the Fighter just do a PARRY WITH MOAR DAMAGE as his encounter-changing ability?
Furthermore, if I remember correctly, you don't get access to all the combat maneuver things. You only get like...what, 1 or 2 at first level, and gain additional maneuvers slowly? That is far from....dynamic.
Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid Copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade." "Good!" said the Baron, sitting in his hall, "But Iron -- Cold Iron -- is master of them all." -Kipling
Defenders: We ARE the wall!
I've replaced the previous Edition Warring line in my sig with this one, because honestly, everybody needs to work together to make the D&D they like without trampling on somebody else's D&D.
Miss d20 Modern? Take a look at Dias Ex Machina Game's UltraModern 4e!
Da-Ni: Sure, 4e at-wills were "melee basic PLUS" but...what about the encounters and dailys? In DDN, will the Fighter just do a PARRY WITH MOAR DAMAGE as his encounter-changing ability?
Furthermore, if I remember correctly, you don't get access to all the combat maneuver things. You only get like...what, 1 or 2 at first level, and gain additional maneuvers slowly? That is far from....dynamic.
Encounter powers are likely completely gone for everyone. It's either at-will or daily. Anything that needs to be an encounter will probably be done by saying something can be used 4-5 times per day.
I imagine some classes are at-will (fighter/rogue), some daily (wizard), some mixed (cleric).
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way. Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken. Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken. King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong. Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading. Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered. Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square. Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong. Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked. Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic. Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation. Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses. Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat. Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent. Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof. Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it. Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways. Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful. The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken. Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered. Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5. Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong. Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken. Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken. Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
Da-Ni: Sure, 4e at-wills were "melee basic PLUS" but...what about the encounters and dailys? In DDN, will the Fighter just do a PARRY WITH MOAR DAMAGE as his encounter-changing ability?
Furthermore, if I remember correctly, you don't get access to all the combat maneuver things. You only get like...what, 1 or 2 at first level, and gain additional maneuvers slowly? That is far from....dynamic.
I agree that it is not much at level 1 and I hope that they will change it. The fighter should gain more at level 1 and also more when gaining a level. A lot of people agree with us on this, so I am pretty sure that there will be more options already in the next playstest.
It does not seem like the Fighter is going to get Encounter or Daily options. At the moment the design goal seems to be to give him consistent at-will options. That said, I could imagine gibing the Fighter a boost do Combat Superiority dice for one round as a daily ability. That way he could pull off an awesome action like pushing an opponent 6 squares and knocking him prone with hefty damage. That way said opponent is hurt and in a very bad position and not likely to do something harmful in its next round.
I do see the possibility to let Fighters do awesome stuff with Combat Superiority. We just have to give them more time.
And a lot of spells have to be fixed too. I can only repeat it: Don't fix the Fighter, fix the Cleric and the Wizard.
And a lot of spells have to be fixed too. I can only repeat it: Don't fix the Fighter, fix the Cleric and the Wizard.
In this, we agree.
Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid Copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade." "Good!" said the Baron, sitting in his hall, "But Iron -- Cold Iron -- is master of them all." -Kipling
Defenders: We ARE the wall!
I've replaced the previous Edition Warring line in my sig with this one, because honestly, everybody needs to work together to make the D&D they like without trampling on somebody else's D&D.
Miss d20 Modern? Take a look at Dias Ex Machina Game's UltraModern 4e!
I was so excited when I found the combat superiority option. It looks to be a big game changer for the fighters. I hope it can be expanded and enhanced so it is almost as vast and encompasing as Wizard's spell books are.
Da-Ni: Sure, 4e at-wills were "melee basic PLUS" but...what about the encounters and dailys? In DDN, will the Fighter just do a PARRY WITH MOAR DAMAGE as his encounter-changing ability?
Furthermore, if I remember correctly, you don't get access to all the combat maneuver things. You only get like...what, 1 or 2 at first level, and gain additional maneuvers slowly? That is far from....dynamic.
Encounter powers are likely completely gone for everyone. It's either at-will or daily. Anything that needs to be an encounter will probably be done by saying something can be used 4-5 times per day.
I imagine some classes are at-will (fighter/rogue), some daily (wizard), some mixed (cleric).
I take this back.
The last rule of 3 mentioned them considering encounter powers.
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way. Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken. Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken. King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong. Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading. Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered. Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square. Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong. Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked. Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic. Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation. Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses. Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat. Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent. Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof. Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it. Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways. Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful. The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken. Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered. Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5. Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong. Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken. Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken. Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
