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10 months ago ::
Aug 15, 2012 - 12:43PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Jan 11, 2012
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With the Bounded Accuracy design concept, is there a good reason to have the different classes differ in size of hit dice? what is it inherently about the wizard class that makes them more frail, and why does it differ from the mechanical value of the wizard's constitution score? what is it inherently about the fighter class that makes them more hardy, and why does it differ from the mechanical value of the fighter's constitution score?
monster hit dice are determined by size, rather than class (or role), even for human "monsters". small monsters have d6s for hit dice, medium monsters have d8s, and large monsters have d10s.
I propose that all medium sized player characters' hit dice be d8s, the same as monster hit dice. at level up, a character may choose either (1d8 + constitution modifier) or (5 + constitution modifier).
as a fighter is likely to have a higher constitution than a wizard, cleric or rogue, his hit points will go up faster, representing this meme that the martial, battle-hardened, grizzled fighter is "tougher" and able to take more punishment than the frail, bearded, bookish wizard.
potential pros: hit points still increase, at a predictable rate, for all classes. monsters and player characters are more closely balanced, leading to greater ease in encounter design combat difficulty is easy for DMs to scale by fiddling with a two-dimensional health pool economy: - raising monster hit dice makes monsters tougher but not deadlier to characters - lowering monster hit dice makes monsters more frail but not weaker to characters - raising player hit dice makes players tougher but not deadlier to monsters - lowering player hit dice makes players more frail but not weaker to monsters - combine the above in a way that you like for a different feel, such as grittier or more drawn out combat. multiple ways to influence hp progression mechanically through feats or class features - bonus added to hit dice when rolling - influence the size of hit dice
potential cons: simplifies the system, "homogenizing" classes - rogues, clerics, wizards likely to have the same HP progression while fighters outpace them breaks very hard from tradition, more radical than 4e
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10 months ago ::
Aug 15, 2012 - 12:47PM
#2
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I think you have some decent points.
But the bottom line is, this edition is supposed to epitomize D&D, and part of that is hardy fighters and frail wizards...
Not saying I agree with that outlook, but there it is...
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10 months ago ::
Aug 16, 2012 - 12:53AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Jan 11, 2012
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i think that what i've presented does present "hardy fighters" and "frail wizards". small differences between the classes is part of what bounded accuracy is about.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 16, 2012 - 12:57AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Feb 24, 2008
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i think that what i've presented does present "hardy fighters" and "frail wizards". small differences between the classes is part of what bounded accuracy is about.
I don't see bounded accuracy necessarily means a "small difference" between classes. It's a difference in progression style from past editions. Maybe a small difference at hitting a target... But I still not seeing the small difference between classes.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 16, 2012 - 2:18AM
#5
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Date Joined:
May 30, 2010
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I think they are going back on the bounded accuracy idea. I see that attacks are going up +1 every 3 levels or so.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 16, 2012 - 6:02AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Aug 10, 2012
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Wizards and Fighters have different numbers of hit points because of the way they do their main schtick; Fighters wade in and take hits to give hits, Wizards stay in the back and drop spells on enemies who are far away. Actively engaging the enemy requires more hit points. It's purely a concession to that difference in delivery systems, it has nothing to do with bounded accuracy.
Formerly Batshido, Captain America of the 4vengers
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10 months ago ::
Aug 16, 2012 - 6:09AM
#7
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I don't see bounded accuracy necessarily means a "small difference" between classes.
I dont see this either.
Bounded accuracy has nothing to do with the difference between classes, only between levels.
Also in the grand scheme of things, being "frail" is the pay off for casters with access to powerful daily spells (think glass cannon).
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10 months ago ::
Aug 16, 2012 - 6:10AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Jun 22, 2008
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Let's give wizards the same hit points as fighters. Let's also make them cause the same damage as fighters. Maybe we can let them use heavy armor and carry a sword and shield. We could also put them on the front line of combat and let them engage in melee and give them some weapon maneuvers. We could even take away all their spells so they are balanced well with the fighters.
I can't wait to play the new wizard. I think I'll put my best scores in strength and constitution.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 16, 2012 - 11:23AM
#9
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Date Joined:
Feb 24, 2008
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I think they are going back on the bounded accuracy idea. I see that attacks are going up +1 every 3 levels or so.
I don't think their going back on the idea. Bounded accuracy actually seems to be a trend over the last edition. Instead of +1 every level (fighter classes), they flattened it in 4e to +1/2 per level. I see bounded accuracy continuing the trend of flattening level based bonuses further and applying the flattening effect to non-combat related facets of the game.
I think that it might make things easier to balance for the designers. One of the biggest problems, balance wised at least in my opinion, was the large growth of bonuses as one gained levels. They might be modifying the concept of bounded accuracy, I don't think they are "going back" on it though.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 16, 2012 - 11:34AM
#10
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Date Joined:
Jul 30, 2006
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Classes need to have weaknesses based on thier level of strengths.
Wizards in the new edition will once again be potent forces of pure physics breaking might.... and rightly so should be stuck with the d4 HD. Wizards are the runty, nerdy book worms of the DnD universe that trade off working out for power to turn the laws of physics inside out.
Thats a fair trade off in my book.
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