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10 months ago ::
Aug 15, 2012 - 8:21AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Jun 22, 2008
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Strength is dump stat for wizards, clerics, and rogues.
Dexterity is a dump stat for fighters and clerics with armor.
Intelligence is a dump stat for fighters, clerics, and most rogues
Wisdom is a dump stat for fighters, wizards, and rogues
Charisma is a dump stat for everyone.
Basically the ideal array (in a 25 point buy system) would be 17, 15, 9, 9, 9, 9
A human would end up with 20, 16, 10, 10, 10, 10 after race and class adjustments.
20 primary stat
16 constitution
10 all other stats.
All my characters would use this formula.
The solution:
Make hit points = constitution + class hit points, no additional con modifier per level.
Death at hit points = negative constitution
3 skills based on constitution (same for every ability score for 18 total skills)
Create a Base class with constitution as primary stat and partially dependent on other ability scores as well
Create a Specialty with dependence on constitution.
Other ideas:
Weapon attacks all based on dexterity
Weapon damage all based on strength
Magic attacks based on dexterity
Magic damage based on primary stat
Negative dexterity mods penalize people in heavy armor
Charisma needs a major renovation as well. It is currently unused by every class. It should have much greater value or simply get rid of it.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 15, 2012 - 8:28AM
#2
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Agreed with the problem, not sure I agree with the solution of removing the hp scaling per level. I would instead advise them to make the other stats matter more. 3.5 int wasn;t a dump stat, you lost skill points. Maybe it was convoluted. Maybe it took more time. But maybe it was a stat I never dumped.
No, this alone wouldn't fix the problem, but make more things like that based on a score. That's their job, developing a new system. Encourage choices, don't make the current one less appealing. I'm sure you could do something with charisma based on allies, for example. Strength and dexterity do not really need a retool as much. Wisdom I admit, I don't have anything off the top of my head, but again, they are developing a new system, or so I believe.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 15, 2012 - 8:33AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Jun 22, 2008
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You are right. In 3.5, intelligence was more valuable for skill points. Maybe the int mod grants additional trained skills.
I would love to de-emphasize the primary stat idea.
+1 to primary ability scores only further makes each character a primary stat plus constitution character.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 15, 2012 - 8:33AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Feb 28, 2012
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I agree that there is something wrong with charisma but I was thinking about going in the opposite direction giving those with High Charisma a price reduction and henchmen(which is a Charisma based mechanic, which is the mechanic that charsma actually seemed like it could pull it's weight as a mechanic).
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10 months ago ::
Aug 15, 2012 - 8:34AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Jun 30, 2011
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In my experience, Dexterity is too important for most PCs to dump even if it's not their primary ability score. Even PCs in heavy armor use Dex. for initiative, ranged attacks, saves. Everyone else has it as part of their AC. In regards to Con. even when it's modifier is added to HP every level it's usually better to have Dex. above average. Generally for most PCs the increased HP from Dex. does not keep pace with average damage.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 15, 2012 - 8:35AM
#6
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I agree that there is something wrong with charisma but I was thinking about going in the opposite direction giving those with High Charisma a price reduction and henchmen(which is a Charisma based mechanic, which is the mechanic that charsma actually seemed like it could pull it's weight as a mechanic).
Yup, charisma could be solved with NPCs and henchmen mechanics, and since a lot players dont like those, more "behind the scenes" things with NPCs like price reducations would work well, too, or pehaps access to more difficult to acquire items.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 15, 2012 - 8:41AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Aug 13, 2004
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Charisma could be solved by lost HPs when entering a civilized area, because of the children throwing stones to the ugly wanderers  Less seriously, we will know the need of secondary abilities when all feats and options will be available.
"They are making it clear that when modern design and common sense come into conflict with tradition, tradition wins." - thecasualoblivion
"Vancian isn't broken, you just have to set your game to the wizard's clock!" - Oxybe
"In many ways, making a new edition of D&D is alot like trying to sell a car to the Amish." - Dwarfslayer
"Encounters are the heart of the AD&D game" - PHB AD&D 2nd edition.
"you shouldn't even bother trying to become like me." - Gary Gygax (Elfcrusher confirmed)
"Feel free to claim I said anything you like. How's someone going to call you out on it? Are they going to be all like, 'I know all of the things that Gary said, and that's not one of them?'"
- Gary Gygax
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10 months ago ::
Aug 15, 2012 - 8:44AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Feb 28, 2012
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I agree that there is something wrong with charisma but I was thinking about going in the opposite direction giving those with High Charisma a price reduction and henchmen(which is a Charisma based mechanic, which is the mechanic that charsma actually seemed like it could pull it's weight as a mechanic).
Yup, charisma could be solved with NPCs and henchmen mechanics, and since a lot players dont like those, more "behind the scenes" things with NPCs like price reducations would work well, too, or pehaps access to more difficult to acquire items.
I like thinking that only a Cha 20 charcter is the only one with a chance to buy a magic item, because those people would be the only ones nice enough that NPCs would mention that they have a magic item that they could sell to them. Because Charisma is a dump stat the above would rarely ocurr conserving the old school few magic item feel...
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10 months ago ::
Aug 15, 2012 - 8:59AM
#9
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Date Joined:
Jun 22, 2008
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In my experience, Dexterity is too important for most PCs to dump even if it's not their primary ability score. Even PCs in heavy armor use Dex. for initiative, ranged attacks, saves. Everyone else has it as part of their AC. In regards to Con. even when it's modifier is added to HP every level it's usually better to have Dex. above average. Generally for most PCs the increased HP from Dex. does not keep pace with average damage.
So your ideal character for a non-dexterity character might be:
Human
Starting 16 15 13 9 9 8 (25 pt buy)
After race and class mods:
Primary stat 19
Constitution 16
Dexterity 14
Other stats 10 10 9
Ok, I still prefer 20, 16, 10, 10, 10, 10 but I see your point.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 15, 2012 - 9:01AM
#10
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Date Joined:
Jun 22, 2008
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I agree that there is something wrong with charisma but I was thinking about going in the opposite direction giving those with High Charisma a price reduction and henchmen(which is a Charisma based mechanic, which is the mechanic that charsma actually seemed like it could pull it's weight as a mechanic).
Yup, charisma could be solved with NPCs and henchmen mechanics, and since a lot players dont like those, more "behind the scenes" things with NPCs like price reducations would work well, too, or pehaps access to more difficult to acquire items.
Every party would have 1 charisma based character for purchasing supplies and the rest would use it as a dump stat. They would need mechanics to make it valuable as an individual and not as a party.
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