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This thread is being created with the intent of getting a formal list of odd wording, unclear definitions, potential unintended issues, and other forms of questioning relating to the Playtest Packet 2.  This is -not- a complaint thread or a debate thread; regardless of your views on whether you agree with something, please only make clear questions here.    I'll start off with some that I know are floating in threads.  If I miss yours, it's not intentional -- I'm just going off memory at the time of posting.

I will update this first post as more are added and hopefully having a single, concise thread will allow Mike and Co. to more easily see the biggest questions we have.  Again...please keep complaints and comments to other threads.  Thank you.

1.  Hold Person spell.  The wording of Hold Person seems to indicate that any creature, regardless of Hit Die or Hit Points, can be made immobile for 1 minute (10 rounds) with no save, as the save indicates that only the -paralysis- effect is listed.

2. Healing Word.  There is some confusion among forumgoers as to whether or not the 'Unconcious' state precludes hearing.  As hearing is the basis for more spells than just this one,  a look at the Unconcious state itself is probably more in order.

3. Spells in Armor.  While Wizards are expressly forbidden from casting spells in armor, the Dabbler specialty makes no such mention.  Is it intentional for Dabblers to be able to cast in armor? (Seemingly answered in post-packet followup with Warlock and Sorcerer)

4. Animate Servant.  The description lists this as a ritual, but the prerequisites do not mention the need for a Ritual class feature.  Is this intentional?

5. Thieves Cant.  Would this not be better served as a background?  Also, as it stands 'among thieves' is wonky wording.  If it is -not- to be moved, 'among rogues' would serve better.

6. Fighter Pregen Longbow is missing an attack modifier, and short sword appears to be using incorrect stat (STR instead of DEX for a finesse weapon). (Thank you, Plaguescarred)

7. Fighters and Clerics get class improvements at 1st, 3rd, and 5th levels.  Rogues do so at 1st, 2nd, and 5th levels.  Is this intended or a typo? (Thank you, Chakravant)

8. Under skills, it mentions that you can learn a new skill as you raise levels.  However, the mechanic listed only shows adding a +1 to an existing skill.  Is this something that cannot be done until past level 5, or is the wording incomplete?

9. Terminology.  The Elf Pregen's Magic Missile states that it 'autohits', while Hit is defined as requiring an attack roll. 

10. What happens if you attack with a weapon with which you are not proficient?

11. Warlock Invocation: Fabrication of the Weave creates an item for a duration of 10, but does not indicate what should follow '10'.  Minutes?  Rounds?  Hours?

12. Jumping movement:  Long jumps seem to allow higher than normal movement speed per round with a sufficiently high strength score. With at least 10 strength, anyone that moves their speed - 5ft and then jumps can move 5ft further than just normally walking full speed each round. This goes up to +10ft and +15ft at strength scores 15 and 20, respectively.
..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />13. Character Creation document, page 4, right column, Character Advancement chart: Gaining fifth level grants no benefit, or has the benefit accidently been omitted?

14. If you are dual wielding and activate the Glancing Blow maneuver, do you halve the die roll result for damage?

15. Do combat maneuvers like Glancing Blow allow you to add ability score bonuses to damage?

---UPDATED---

5.  The Thieves' Cant class feature is mis-named.  Not all Rogues are thieves (it depends on which, if any, backround is being used).  Also, it actually reads "Among thieves . . . "; the wording needs to be general rather than specific.

I also have a related question:  Wouldn't thieves' cant be better served as part of the 'thief' backround (in conjunction with the 'thief signs' trait for instance) rather than as a class feature?

Just a quick note:  I'm not nitpicking, I honestly believe this needs to be clarified.

Aug 14, 2012 -- 12:12PM, Artifact wrote:

5.  The Thieves' Cant class feature is mis-named.  Not all Rogues are thieves (it depends on which, if any, backround is being used).  Also, it actually reads "Among thieves . . . "; the wording needs to be general rather than specific.

I also have a related question:  Wouldn't thieves' cant be better served as part of the 'thief' backround (in conjunction with the 'thief signs' trait for instance) rather than as a class feature?

Just a quick note:  I'm not nitpicking, I honestly believe this needs to be clarified.

No, you're right.  This was one I had intended to add, then I had a phone call come in right as I was finishing up and it slipped my mind lol.  Thanks Artifact.

6. The Human Fighter Pregen's Longbow attack is missing a damage modifier. It should be 1d8+4 piercing damage. Also his Shortsword attack is using Strenght instead of Dexterity for unknown reasons and should be +7 1d6+4 piercong damage since its a finesse piercing weapon.

7. The Elf Wizard Pregen's Magic Missile attack incorrectly says it auto-hit. It autodamage but doesn't hit since it doesn't make an attack roll.


EDITED

Fighters and Clerics get class improvements at 1st, 3rd, and 5th levels.  Rogues do so at 1st, 2nd, and 5th levels.  Is this intended or a typo?

Bump for great justice.

Another bump, and a comment.

It seems that Number 3 has been answered by the Warlock playtest. Cantrips gained from Magic-User seem to be usable in armor since the Warlock doesn't get an exception for casting them in Leather Armor and Magic-User is their suggested Specialty.

What happen if you attack with a weapon with which you aren`t proficient ? (armor describes it, but not weapons)

Very good idea for a thread. I have two questions.

Low light vision (from race) and night vision (from thief scheme) - do they stack? That is, if an elf thief is in a room with total darkness, and "uses" light vision to treat is as shadows, does night vision (after kicking in) reduce shadows to normal light, allowing an elf to see normally, or are they not stackable, and night vision is redundant for low-light races.

Warlock Invocation: Fabrication of the Weave creates an item for a duration of 10... - description cuts off here. 10 minutes? 10 hours? 10 rounds?

Aug 17, 2012 -- 10:08AM, Rejnwyrd wrote:

Very good idea for a thread. I have two questions.

Low light vision (from race) and night vision (from thief scheme) - do they stack? That is, if an elf thief is in a room with total darkness, and "uses" light vision to treat is as shadows, does night vision (after kicking in) reduce shadows to normal light, allowing an elf to see normally, or are they not stackable, and night vision is redundant for low-light races.

Warlock Invocation: Fabrication of the Weave creates an item for a duration of 10... - description cuts off here. 10 minutes? 10 hours? 10 rounds?

1) Seems like they stack.  Problems may happen if there's a kobold rogue with light sensitivity. He'll have to wear sunglass at night 

2) I would guess minutes.  But yea... it's missing the durration.

I'll contribute to this thread when I'm not at work, and have the playtest packet to look at.

In the meantime, I'll take care of the obligatory hate that goes on in these forae.

YOU ALL EAT PUPPY DOGS AND KICK BABIES!

NU UH, YOU'RE A CAT-LOVING COMMUNIST!

FOR THE MOTHERLAND AND THE FELINE OVERLORDS! YOU DRINK DOG DROOL!

AT LEAST I CAN HAVE PEOPLE OVER MY HOUSE WITHOUT THEM DYING FROM ALLERGIES AND HOUSECAT ATTACKS!

etc.

Here's something I posted in this thread which I'm sure is completely unintended:

12. Long jumps seem to allow higher than normal movement speed per round with a sufficiently high strength score. With at least 10 strength, anyone that moves their speed - 5ft and then jumps can move 5ft further than just normally walking full speed each round. This goes up to +10ft and +15ft at strength scores 15 and 20, respectively.

Aug 17, 2012 -- 11:29AM, ShinQuickMan wrote:

Here's something I posted in this thread which I'm sure is completely unintended:

12. Long jumps seem to allow higher than normal movement speed per round with a sufficiently high strength score. With at least 10 strength, anyone that moves their speed - 5ft and then jumps can move 5ft further than just normally walking full speed each round. This goes up to +10ft and +15ft at strength scores 15 and 20, respectively.

This just needs the simple clarification that jumps (or other alternate modes of movement) cannot exceed your total move allowance.

Aug 17, 2012 -- 11:37AM, GilbertMDH wrote:

Aug 17, 2012 -- 11:29AM, ShinQuickMan wrote:

Here's something I posted in this thread which I'm sure is completely unintended:

12. Long jumps seem to allow higher than normal movement speed per round with a sufficiently high strength score. With at least 10 strength, anyone that moves their speed - 5ft and then jumps can move 5ft further than just normally walking full speed each round. This goes up to +10ft and +15ft at strength scores 15 and 20, respectively.

This just needs the simple clarification that jumps (or other alternate modes of movement) cannot exceed your total move allowance.

Alternatively let strength improve move speed as an actual feature. Given how poor of an attribute it currently is, it certainly couldn't hurt.

13. Character Creation document, page 4, right column, Character Advancement chart: Gaining fifth level grants no benefit, or has the benefit accidently been omitted? 
14. If you are dual wielding and activate the Glancing Blow maneuver, do you halve the die roll result for damage? (I vote no)
15. Do combat maneuvers like Glancing Blow allow you to add ability score bonuses to damage? (I vote yes)

Aug 17, 2012 -- 11:39AM, Seerow wrote:

Aug 17, 2012 -- 11:37AM, GilbertMDH wrote:

Aug 17, 2012 -- 11:29AM, ShinQuickMan wrote:

Here's something I posted in this thread which I'm sure is completely unintended:

12. Long jumps seem to allow higher than normal movement speed per round with a sufficiently high strength score. With at least 10 strength, anyone that moves their speed - 5ft and then jumps can move 5ft further than just normally walking full speed each round. This goes up to +10ft and +15ft at strength scores 15 and 20, respectively.

This just needs the simple clarification that jumps (or other alternate modes of movement) cannot exceed your total move allowance.

Alternatively let strength improve move speed as an actual feature. Given how poor of an attribute it currently is, it certainly couldn't hurt.

This is an interesting idea, but I am not sure there is enough granularity in move rates (multiples of 5) to make this work.

Front post has been updated with all questions.  Looking good, keep 'em coming.

Aug 17, 2012 -- 11:42AM, areata wrote:

13. Character Creation document, page 4, right column, Character Advancement chart: Gaining fifth level grants no benefit, or has the benefit accidently been omitted? 
14. If you are dual wielding and activate the Glancing Blow maneuver, do you halve the die roll result for damage? (I vote no)
15. Do combat maneuvers like Glancing Blow allow you to add ability score bonuses to damage? (I vote yes)

14.  It seems so.  ALL damage is halfed.

15. Nothing about any combat manuver say's to add your strength, so i don't think it would.

Also, glacing blow will almost never trigger.  If a fighter rolls a 10+, he's going to hit.

Aug 17, 2012 -- 11:39AM, Seerow wrote:

Aug 17, 2012 -- 11:37AM, GilbertMDH wrote:

Aug 17, 2012 -- 11:29AM, ShinQuickMan wrote:

Here's something I posted in this thread which I'm sure is completely unintended:

12. Long jumps seem to allow higher than normal movement speed per round with a sufficiently high strength score. With at least 10 strength, anyone that moves their speed - 5ft and then jumps can move 5ft further than just normally walking full speed each round. This goes up to +10ft and +15ft at strength scores 15 and 20, respectively.

This just needs the simple clarification that jumps (or other alternate modes of movement) cannot exceed your total move allowance.

Alternatively let strength improve move speed as an actual feature. Given how poor of an attribute it currently is, it certainly couldn't hurt.

While I agree that Strength could be more useful, I do not like the flavour of a Dwarf in heavy armor leaping around like a frog...

I don't think he was implying through jumping, just through having increased strength.

And it's not so much 'leaping around like a frog' as it is 'hopping 'round like a rabbit'.

Can a player take the Feats from Specialties in a different order if they meet the prerequisite?

Can a Fighter take the Combat Maneuvers from Fighting Styles in a different order if they meet the prerequisite?

Can a caster Dismiss the effect of an ongoing spell (i.e. Grease)? Does it require the caster to use an action?

If a Fighter or Rogue takes a Specialty that grants a Cantrip or Orison which grants a magical attack, what is the base Magical Attack bonus before adding the Wisdom or Intelligence modifier?

Basic Kobolds seem to be using the wrong stat (strength instead of Dex) for their melee attack.

Does the mob ability (can't remember the name, grants +1 to hit) stack with itself from other creatures. 

In the DM guidelines section it still says that an easy constitution check is in order to stop spell disruption (though it does not give us clear rules as to what type of damage, taken when, disrupts what). In the player packet, the section on disruption no longer includes rules for disruption as a result of damage taken. That needs to be cleaned up. And, personally, I hope that cleaning it up means adding it back in. The check made as a result of damage taken was one of my favorite things from the last playtest. I was really upset to see it gone from the current disruption section. 

The Warlock Lesser Invocation Fabrication Weave has no duration method given

It says ''The object lasts for 10''    10 seconds,  10 rounds, minutes, days, weeks, years, decade, century, millenium ?

Do you add your ability modifier to Spell's damage rolls or only to attack roll ?

Magical Attack (Class PDF pg. 10) was changed to only mention it apply to attack rolls, but the text on damage roll (How To Play pg. 12)  still says you add the ability modifier you used to make the attack to the damage roll of spells.

Quick note on Thieves Cant. IRL, it was called that (or just Cant for short) even though it was hardly just thieves that used it. It developed out of angloromani as an obfuscating pidgin, used to communicate without any upstanding sorts knowing what you were on about.

The text shouldn't specify "amongst theives", and the theif scheme shouldn't be the only way to get it, though. It would make sense to put it in the thief background, since thief rogues would still automatically get it, but so would anyone else who took the theif theme, but honestly, thieves, thugs, con men, black market dealers, gypsies and even regular folk who live in urban slums and interact with those sorts could reasonably know it, so it really should be more broadly available.

I'd almost be tempted to make it a skill.

The War Cleric and Draconic Heritage Sorcerer gain proficiencies with martial weapons. Does that include Finesse weapons and Heavy Weapons? The suggested equipment for the Draconic Heritage Sorcerer includes a Greatsword, but doesn't specify that it gets that proficiency. 

Finesse and Heavy Weapons are different Weapon Categories than Martial Weapon, and thus doesn't include one another. (Its a error in the Dragon Sorcerer suggested equipment or weapon proficiency entry)

Aug 20, 2012 -- 8:40AM, Plaguescarred wrote:

Finesse and Heavy Weapons are different Weapon Categories than Martial Weapon, and thus doesn't include one another. (Its a error in the Dragon Sorcerer suggested equipment or weapon proficiency entry)

Is that official? Could I get a link?

Thats how its written in the Melee Weapon Categories (Equipement PDF pg. 3)

Melee Weapon Categories: Each melee weapon falls into one of the following categories, which are broad groups that share certain key traits. Your class determines what weapons you can use.

 

Right, but the question becomes should the weapon proficiencies for War Domain and Draconic Heritage include Heavy and Finesse, or should the suggested equipment be changed to longsword? I understand why many would think that it should be the latter, but right now it opens it up to interpretation.

With the requirement to cast a spell of having a free hand, a shield proficiency becomes somewhat less desirable for the Draconic Heritage Sorcerer.

If the Dragon Sorcerer gains all Armor and Weapons Proficiency, Weapon Attack modifier of +3, i think it will play in the Fighter's court too much IMO.

Aug 20, 2012 -- 9:34AM, Plaguescarred wrote:

If the Dragon Sorcerer gains all Armor and Weapons Proficiency, Weapon Attack modifier of +3, i think it will play in the Fighter's court too much IMO.

Possibly. That is why they should remove shield proficiency. Give them Heavy Weapons, no shields, it fixes the problem of the free hand for casting as well.

the halfling rogue pregen is missing night-vision as well as the free thief background it would get from its scheme.

This was mentioned elsewhere, but I'm going to say it here: the Warlock has only 2 1st-level spells available, and at 3rd level, it should know 3 1st-level spells. This badly needs fixing.

Also, it looks like they made a mistake: there's no Bard. Obviously there's supposed to be a Bard, because Bards are awesome... 

In beastiary the Goblins have a Melee Attack - Shortbow. I'm guessing it is supposed to be Ranged.

In the How To Play document under "Damage Rolls," the text seems to indicate that the same ability modifier used to make the attack is added to the damage roll for both weapons and spells.  Please clarify, as this would mean Ray of Frost deals 1d6 + 3 + Int modifier for a wizard, Radiant Lance deals 1d8 + 4 + Wis modifier for a cleric, etc.

Regrading #5. We had a discussion regarding Thieves' Cant and Thief Signs. This was my ruling.

They serve two different purposes.

Thieves' Cant is a 'language'. It allows you the ability to use a secret language that thieves use to talk about crimes while in busy areas.

Thief Signs is an ability that allows you to read markings (notches on walls, graffiti, flags, etc..) that thieves use to display information about fences, informations and general whereabouts of the criminal underground.

Rogues are not always criminals ... Thieves' Cant and Thief Signs is related specifically to the criminal underground.

Aug 24, 2012 -- 5:47AM, QuietNinja wrote:

Rogues are not always criminals ... Thieves' Cant and Thief Signs is related specifically to the criminal underground.

As written in the playtest, all Rogues are indeed criminals.

Consider:  Two Rogue Schemes are presented (thief and thug).  Rogue Scheme is a class feature, so you must pick one or the other (or else forego a class feature).  Both schemes are criminal in nature.  

It's very likely there will be additional schemes available in the finalized game, with little or no implications of a criminal nature.

For right now though, the class is more Thief (specific) than Rogue (general).  Might as well reclaim that name from 2nd Edition .  That's what they were called back then.  Thieves were a sub-class of Rogues in fact, Bards being the other.

Anyway, another issue that I believe could use some clarification.

Aug 24, 2012 -- 1:55PM, Artifact wrote:

Aug 24, 2012 -- 5:47AM, QuietNinja wrote:

Rogues are not always criminals ... Thieves' Cant and Thief Signs is related specifically to the criminal underground.

As written in the playtest, all Rogues are indeed criminals.

Consider:  Two Rogue Schemes are presented (thief and thug).  Rogue Scheme is a class feature, so you must pick one or the other (or else forego a class feature).  Both schemes are criminal in nature.  

It's very likely there will be additional schemes available in the finalized game, with little or no implications of a criminal nature.

For right now though, the class is more Thief (specific) than Rogue (general).  Might as well reclaim that name from 2nd Edition .  That's what they were called back then.  Thieves were a sub-class of Rogues in fact, Bards being the other.

Anyway, another issue that I believe could use some clarification.

No, a thug by definition is not always criminal. Gang related usage of the word thug points to criminal activity ... but a thug is can be just a person who beats people up on the street.
--
(Dictionary.com)

thug    noun

Aug 24, 2012 -- 2:10PM, QuietNinja wrote:

No, a thug by definition is not always criminal. Gang related usage of the word thug points to criminal activity ... but a thug is can be just a person who beats people up on the street.
--
(Dictionary.com)

thug    noun

1. a cruel or vicious ruffian, robber, or murderer.

2. ( sometimes initial capital letter ) one of a former group of professional robbers and murderers in India who strangled their victims.

ruf·fi·an   noun

1. a tough, lawless person; roughneck; bully.
--
"Rogues rely on skill, stealth, and their opponents’ vulnerabilities to get the upper hand. Rogues bring versatility and resourcefulness to an adventuring party, having the knack for finding solutions to just  about any problem they face.", page 7 of the Classes PDF

I'm looking at it from this angle:  If someone beats me up in the street, that's assault.  I could press charges, so it's a criminal act.

I'm not a lawyer, so this is just my gut reaction when I hear the word 'thug'.  Not a nice person, up to no good, looking for trouble .

Anyway, don't wanna needlessly derail a very constructive, helpful thread, just clarifying my own thoughts a bit.

Elite and Solo are not defined anywhere.

Expereience numbers in the beastery seem completely out of wack.  Example

Goblin Level 1 Standard, 120 XP - AC 13, 3 HP, weak attacks
Kobold Trap Lord Level 1 Elite, 120 XP - AC 15, 17 HP, AoE Attack

Dark Priest Level 3 Elite, 260 XP = Death
Dark Acolyte Level 3 Standard, 270 XP = Speed Bump

Artifact
Me too. No worries, and yeah .. we probably shouldn't derail the thread. From my view I see 'Thug' as the border line, maybe a criminal / may not be. (also check page 4 of Backgrounds). I find it odd that the Rogue schemes are based on Backgrounds ... but they left out Spy and it is right beside the two. That may just be some for this thread.

The Rogue has the suggested Background of Thief and the Scheme of Thief. There is also a Thug Background and a Thug Scheme. It seems odd for the Rogue to have doubles like this. Perhaps rethinking some names. Maybe Larcen and Ruffian.

In the playtest adventure, the party finds a +1 handaxe. The only problem is that there is nothing telling what a +1 does in D&D next. +1 hit? +1 damage? +1 both? I'm going with the last but it needs a description and mechanics.

There are several monsters and races mentioned in the Blingdenstone adventure, but I can't seem to find any stats or detailed fluff on them.

The races and monsters mentioned in Blingdenstone (but don't seem to have stats) are:

Beholder
Pech
Svirfneblin Gnome
Surface gnome
Elementals
Mind Flayer
Duergar

Why can't I find any stats for these NPCs in the playtest?

You say you want feedback, here it is.  I'm happy that the game is a little simpler now because now I think I can teach it to my kids.  That's good.

Bad is that I'm afraid you're going to make the DM's job harder in reference to setting encounters and/or putting together monsters.  4e was good because it was a pretty simple "plug and play" system, and if you needed to make a monster, that was easy, too.  I'm scared of losing that.

More thoughts here:
 dannos-lair.blogspot.com/2012/08/more-th...

Thanks!

Aug 17, 2012 -- 11:42AM, areata wrote:

15. Do combat maneuvers like Glancing Blow allow you to add ability score bonuses to damage? (I vote yes)

On the #3 penny arcade podcast Mike says it doesn't, if I got that correctly.
It is around 14:00 when he is asked if STR is added when using the extra dice on a maneuver and he says no, that would be unbalanced.

yeah

horrible wording throughout

esp double use of thug and thief

It makes a bit of sense though, as you automatically get the thief / thug background AS WELL AS another background of your choice, so having them be named the same prevents you from having to remember both names, i.e.

I am a Rogue Thief with a Charlatan Background and a Dual Wield Specialty, instead of
I am a Rogue Thief (background: SirStealsALot) with a Charlatan Background and a Dual Wield Specialty.


I will admit it may be hard to remember you get both.

The Halfling trait of Nimbleness and the Fighter Maneuver Tumble both say the character can move through a hostile occupied square, I assume that does not provoke an Opportunity Attack?

Aug 14, 2012 -- 11:56AM, anjelika wrote:

3. Spells in Armor.  While Wizards are expressly forbidden from casting spells in armor, the Dabbler specialty makes no such mention.  Is it intentional for Dabblers to be able to cast in armor? (Seemingly answered in post-packet followup with Warlock and Sorcerer)

Was it answered, or an implied answer given? I read through the materials again and am unable to find this answer. Can you enlighten me?

I would presume the answer for Arcane Dabbler is the same as it is for High Elf. Currently, I have been allowing cantrips to be cast in armor, but nothing else. I would love to know the real answer, however! 

Also is Anjelika updating the first post at all?

Dark Adept, Acolyte, and Priest seem very counter intuitive.

Dark Acolyte = lvl 3, AC15, HP1d8+1, XP270, 2 Spells, 1 Channel Divinity

Dark Adept = lvl 5, AC 15, HP2d8+2, XP 200, 3 Spells, 1 Channel Divinity

Dark Priest = elite lvl 3, AC17, HP 4d8+4, XP260, 4 Spells, 2 Channel Divinity

By the numbers a Dark Priest seems a lot more durable than a Dark Acolyte. Dark Adept seems more like an Elite lvl 3 than Dark Priest. Dark Priest has so much more AC and a lot more Hit Points than both of the others together. Don't understand how a lvl 3 elite is worth less XP than a normal lvl3. 

Glancing blow + threshold 10 = trap option

Aug 14, 2012 -- 11:56AM, anjelika wrote:

6. Fighter Pregen Longbow is missing an attack modifier, and short sword appears to be using incorrect stat (STR instead of DEX for a finesse weapon). (Thank you, Plaguescarred)

The information for the sword is on the Equipment page. 

Finesse Weapons (Attack: Strength modifier or Dexterity modifier)

Sep 9, 2012 -- 12:23PM, Nyteshaid wrote:

Aug 14, 2012 -- 11:56AM, anjelika wrote:

6. Fighter Pregen Longbow is missing an attack modifier, and short sword appears to be using incorrect stat (STR instead of DEX for a finesse weapon). (Thank you, Plaguescarred)

The information for the sword is on the Equipment page. 

Finesse Weapons (Attack: Strength modifier or Dexterity modifier)

I think Anjelika means the short sword should use Strength for damage.

Yes and the shortsword is listed under the finess weapon heading which tells you to choose to use either strength OR dexterity modifiers.  So depending on your stats you can choose which modifier to apply.

Sep 9, 2012 -- 5:40PM, Nyteshaid wrote:

Yes and the shortsword is listed under the finess weapon heading which tells you to choose to use either strength OR dexterity modifiers.  So depending on your stats you can choose which modifier to apply.

You're right. I think there was a typo in the first packet, because there was confusion as to whether you could use Dex for the damage modifier as well. Looks like they fixed that in this playtest. Thanks for bringing this to my attention!

Aug 14, 2012 -- 12:12PM, Artifact wrote:

5.  The Thieves' Cant class feature is mis-named.  Not all Rogues are thieves (it depends on which, if any, backround is being used).  Also, it actually reads "Among thieves . . . "; the wording needs to be general rather than specific.

I also have a related question:  Wouldn't thieves' cant be better served as part of the 'thief' backround (in conjunction with the 'thief signs' trait for instance) rather than as a class feature?

Just a quick note:  I'm not nitpicking, I honestly believe this needs to be clarified.

I know that when I am running games even if one of my players is a thief I only let them take thieves cant if they have some connection to other thieves in their backstory. Just a thought.

Thieves Cant isn't misnamed at all. The real world thieves cant was the language of more than just thieves. Peddlers, fences, gamblers, whores, beggars and anyone else with ties to the underworld would know a bit of Cant.

It may be misapplied, however.

Will this finally be the edition where Enlarge Person  is changed?

Maybe an improved version as a higher level spell that grants the other size bonuses? 

Aug 14, 2012 -- 11:56AM, anjelika wrote:

5. Thieves Cant.  Would this not be better served as a background?  Also, as it stands 'among thieves' is wonky wording.  If it is -not- to be moved, 'among rogues' would serve better.

I agree, thieves cant as a class feature seems a bit misapplied.
Especially if there are "schemes" that are not based in the 'thief' archetype (the "Investigator" for example)
I think they should make it a background option - or an extra language (though rules for making languages don't seem to be there).

Btw am I the only one that finds the word "scheme" for the Rogue, a bit in bad taste?? 
It reminds me the 3 stooges: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scheming_Schemers 
I think "Specialty" would be a better name for the rogue sub classes and maybe name the specialties something else.

Aug 14, 2012 -- 11:56AM, anjelika wrote:

1.  Hold Person spell.  The wording of Hold Person seems to indicate that any creature, regardless of Hit Die or Hit Points, can be made immobile for 1 minute (10 rounds) with no save, as the save indicates that only the -paralysis- effect is listed.

The target of a Hold Person spell must now make a Wisdom saving throw to avoid being paralyzed.

Aug 14, 2012 -- 11:56AM, anjelika wrote:

5. Thieves Cant.  Would this not be better served as a background?  Also, as it stands 'among thieves' is wonky wording.  If it is -not- to be moved, 'among rogues' would serve better.

The Thieves Cant class feature is no longer part of the Rogue and is now a Guild Thief Background trait instead.

Aug 14, 2012 -- 11:56AM, anjelika wrote:

6. Fighter Pregen Longbow is missing an attack modifier, and short sword appears to be using incorrect stat (STR instead of DEX for a finesse weapon).

The Human Fighter Pregen no longer use a Shortsword but a Longsword and his Longbow damage now factor his Dexterity modifier.

 I found the expertise dice section confusing. While I understand the system now, I was very confused by the phrase "spend an expertise dice". Spending to me implies a a system whereby you use up a finite amount of something. To me, it should have simply said "roll an expertise dice" maybe this is nit-picky but I spent a long time trying to figure out how exactly you "spend" a die. I was trying to figure out how many dice you get per day, and when you get them back and then what what kind of dice are they. (I saw the 1d4, 1d6, 2d6, etc. and thought you had to roll that to see how many dice you get similar to hit dice.) 

Then before I saw the maneuver PDF I didn't even know what they were for! (Like if they're only used for maneuvers... why aren't they just called maneuver dice?) Am I taking crazy-pills??

Dec 10, 2012 -- 12:18PM, Slimbokid wrote:

 I found the expertise dice section confusing. While I understand the system now, I was very confused by the phrase "spend an expertise dice". Spending to me implies a a system whereby you use up a finite amount of something. To me, it should have simply said "roll an expertise dice" maybe this is nit-picky but I spent a long time trying to figure out how exactly you "spend" a die. I was trying to figure out how many dice you get per day, and when you get them back and then what what kind of dice are they. (I saw the 1d4, 1d6, 2d6, etc. and thought you had to roll that to see how many dice you get similar to hit dice.) 

Then before I saw the maneuver PDF I didn't even know what they were for! (Like if they're only used for maneuvers... why aren't they just called maneuver dice?) Am I taking crazy-pills??

You have a finite amount- they just reset at the end of your turn.
Spending a die means roll it and use the result for a particular maneuver (be sure to declare the maneuver first!)
No, that list shows exactally what your expertise dice are- If it says "2d6" at your level, then you have two 6-sided dice avaliable.

It's pretty unclear to me how Hurricane Strike is supposed to function - when you spend an expertise die, do you roll it?  How is the saving throw calculated - is it 10 + your strength, 10 + your wis, 10 + the expertise die roll?  I'm guessing no rolls are involved as the text doesn't tell you at all how it works if multiple dice are spent.

As well, can a single melee attack activate multiple effects, and can the player choose the order that they activate?  I am thinking of the case where a monk could successfully connect with an attack, use stunning strike, and apply hurricane strike all to the same attack.  As a stunned creature automatically fails any strength saving throws, this would translate to an automatic successful Hurricane Strike, right?

If you spend the dice for hurricane strike, you do not roll it for damage.
so let's say you spend one die. If you hit, you do normal damage (without that die that you spent to do the hurricane) but the target must make a str save.

Now, if you have three dice and you only spend one on hurricane, you could apply the other two to damage. But the 'one' is used for the hurricane and thus not available for damage (or to parry or anything) until the beginning of your next turn when all dice become available again.

If a creature can't make a saving throw, that means it fails those saves and so yes that would be true.  If you Stunned, it says this in how to play.

Greater Teleport:

The table displayed in the spell description is not formatted correctly. While there should be a column for "on target", "off target", "similar target area" and "mishap" there is instead no "on target" column and the "off target" column displays  what the "on target" should display. The "similar target area" displays two sets of numbers, supposedly containing both the correct "similar target area" roll-range as well as the "off target" roll-range. The "mishap" column is displayed correctly.

Is Mithral Scale supposed to be Mithral Chain?  There seems to be a problem with the equipment table and the magic item compendium.