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10 months ago ::
Aug 09, 2012 - 9:53PM
#121
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Date Joined:
Dec 17, 2005
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Now, saves changing, I won't deny. Would we be better with flat saving throw chances?...you know, that's a good question. Should we go back to flat saving throw chances, and not have attributes affect those at all? A few categories could cover most of the cases. (My inclination is that the attribute-saves currently being used cover enough cases for me, and I look forward to justifying Strength saves against things like grapples. But hey! If we're tilting at windmills, let's get a good one going.)
From a game standpoint I like the 4E style saving throw. It's simple, easy and nice. However, the jovial kid-like DM in me really misses saying "Roll me a Reflex Save." There's something mystical about that little phrase. It feels like D&D, at least to me. Saying, "Roll me an Acrobatics check" or "Roll me a Dex Check" just don't feel the same.
Well Dex Check kinda feels similar. It has that 'x" sound...
Moderated by
ORC_Opal
on Aug 10, 2012 - 08:58AM
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10 months ago ::
Aug 09, 2012 - 10:03PM
#122
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Sacred cows I would love see eliminated:
1. Vancian casting
2. Daily resources
3. +X magic items
4. Alignment
5. Plot-breaking spells: detect evil, teleportation, speak with dead, etc.
Other than that, I don't really care about the other stuff.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 09, 2012 - 10:29PM
#123
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Date Joined:
Aug 30, 2007
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Sacred Hamburgers I would like to eat:
1) Alignment
2) Vancian Casting
3) 3-18 Ability Scores
4) +X Magic Items
5) Magical healing being the only viable recovery method
6) Fighters that suck outside of combat
7) Fighters that suck in combat because they aren't magic
Owner and Proprietor of the House of Trolls.
God of ownership and possession.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 09, 2012 - 10:59PM
#124
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I would probably remove:
1. Tactical combat
2. The "everything is core" rule
3. Over focus on linking class to role
4. The belief that the only thing a Fighter can do is Fight
Pro DnD Member of the Axis of Awesome Fighters: Using socks to kill monsters since 2012 DnD Next: Now with more then 4 minutes of Roleplay per gaming hour Spoiler:
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"If you can't make an interesting human fighter, then you aren't ready to play anything else yet" Edymnion
"The idea of resting up between encounters to fill-up on hit points and spells struck my meta-gaming nine-year-old as a distinct possibility. "Are you mad?" says my seven-year-old "This place is full of monsters!" "jamesgrahamuk
All characters have a story. Spoiler:
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Sometimes that story is short and sometimes it is long. They can be tragic, comic or absurd. Some teach. Some are just to fill the empty spaces in our lives. Rarely it is a transcendent fugue only half remembered but wondered at. And frequently: "it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." -William Shakespeare
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10 months ago ::
Aug 09, 2012 - 11:07PM
#125
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Date Joined:
Dec 17, 2005
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I would probably remove:
4. The belief that the only thing a Fighter can do is Fight
Even in 4E I never had the feeling the Fighter was just the Hitymandude. I think people (especially 4E haters) just relied too much on their cards and their character sheet to define who and what a character was.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 09, 2012 - 11:52PM
#126
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Date Joined:
Feb 15, 2012
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The difference between THAC0 and ascending AC is bounded accuracy. ACs in 2E couldn't go below -10, and raw (unmodified) THAC0 couldn't go below 1.
Technically this isn't entirely THAC0, it's the whole AC/THAC0 system, but I suspect it's what anjelika is referring to. And frankly, it only ever came up once every ten or fifteen years for an average group; I played a wizard for ten years (up to 17th level), and only once did we fight a creature with an AC of -10 or a THAC0 of 1. No PC in the party was especially close to either. (I had the best AC, at -5; the best THAC0 of cousre belonged to the fighter, who was only 12th level, so I think that gave him a raw of 7 or 8.)
Actually, THAC0 did go below -10 in a few, rare circumstances. The Dark Sun Dragon Kings were at a -14 if memory serves, and I believe there were others as well. That said, your point still stands.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 10, 2012 - 12:31AM
#127
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Killing sacred cows makes people mad, and this edition is trying to pull people back in, not drive them away. The idea of killing sacred cows was a reason 4e did poorly. So we need to be very selective about harvesting hamberger.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 10, 2012 - 12:50AM
#128
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Date Joined:
Jun 27, 2004
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Killing sacred cows makes people mad, and this edition is trying to pull people back in, not drive them away.
While I absolutely think that discarding "sacred cows" and legacy elements off-hand is a terrible idea, I think keeping them "just because they are" is a pretty terrible idea as well.
And yes, the idea is to "pull people back in" - but let's be honest: some of the "sacred cows" are things that drove people away in the first place, and whose removal (or simply movement to "optional" status) could serve to "pull people back in."
Certainly not a sure thing, on any issue, but part of why I think everything - sacred cow or no - needs to be evaluated on a basis other than "was it here before?".
Feedback Disclaimer
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Yes, I am expressing my opinions (even complaints - le gasp!) about the current iteration of the play-test that we actually have in front of us.
No, I'm not going to wait for you to tell me when it's okay to start expressing my concerns (unless you are WotC).
(And no, my comments on this forum are not of the same tone or quality as my actual survey feedback.)
A Psion for Next (Playable Draft)A Barbarian for Next (Brainstorming Still)My 4e Projects
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10 months ago ::
Aug 10, 2012 - 2:46AM
#129
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Date Joined:
Aug 30, 2007
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I would probably remove:
1. Tactical combat
2. The "everything is core" rule
3. Over focus on linking class to role
I thought the discussion was sacred cows, not taking the opportunity to bash things you didn't like about a single edition.
4. The belief that the only thing a Fighter can do is Fight
Then give him something to do other than fight. The fighter has had the short end of the noncombat stick in almost every edition.
Owner and Proprietor of the House of Trolls.
God of ownership and possession.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 10, 2012 - 3:39AM
#130
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I would probably remove:
4. The belief that the only thing a Fighter can do is Fight
Even in 4E I never had the feeling the Fighter was just the Hitymandude. I think people (especially 4E haters) just relied too much on their cards and their character sheet to define who and what a character was.
Yeah man - the Fighter can do anything so thats why we give him the least to do when he is not fighting.
I would probably remove:
1. Tactical combat
2. The "everything is core" rule
3. Over focus on linking class to role
I thought the discussion was sacred cows, not taking the opportunity to bash things you didn't like about a single edition.
Yes. Thats why I focused on the sacred cows that should be killed.
Pro DnD Member of the Axis of Awesome Fighters: Using socks to kill monsters since 2012 DnD Next: Now with more then 4 minutes of Roleplay per gaming hour Spoiler:
Show
"If you can't make an interesting human fighter, then you aren't ready to play anything else yet" Edymnion
"The idea of resting up between encounters to fill-up on hit points and spells struck my meta-gaming nine-year-old as a distinct possibility. "Are you mad?" says my seven-year-old "This place is full of monsters!" "jamesgrahamuk
All characters have a story. Spoiler:
Show
Sometimes that story is short and sometimes it is long. They can be tragic, comic or absurd. Some teach. Some are just to fill the empty spaces in our lives. Rarely it is a transcendent fugue only half remembered but wondered at. And frequently: "it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." -William Shakespeare
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