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10 months ago ::
Aug 06, 2012 - 3:09PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Aug 12, 2006
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Thinking about combat superiority I started to envision the idea that it could be the basic mechanic for all "martial" characters (using "martial" as non-spellcasters). Nothing about combat superiority screams "fighter" to me, but it does a good job in modeling martial abilities in general.
Each class could then have the possibility to use combat superiority to use some common effects or some class-unique features. A fighter can have the basic possibility to convert it into straight damage, and a specific feat/ability to use some dice from the pool to use some "defenderish" option.
A rogue can convert it into sneak damage if she meets some prerequisites (like advantage), or spend some to increase its speed (or shift more distance if shift rules will get into the system).
An assassin may have the possibility to bring on unused combat superiority dice to the following rounds up to a maximum and then power on a killing strike. Or he could sustain spending combat superiority points to meld into shadows.
A monk could use them to make throw or help himself sustaining a grip.
This would give a distinct feeling to different classes, while keeping a common denominator for all martials.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 06, 2012 - 3:40PM
#2
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Thinking about combat superiority I started to envision the idea that it could be the basic mechanic for all "martial" characters (using "martial" as non-spellcasters). Nothing about combat superiority screams "fighter" to me, but it does a good job in modeling martial abilities in general.
I disagree. I think unique mechanism per class would be a much better move (hell, if it was up to me, Clerics and other Divine classes wouldn't "cast spells" at all, and non-Wizard arcane spellcasters would not be traditional Vancian casters).
I think the idea of using dice to make resource management more intuitive and less bookkeeping is good in general, but...
The martial classes should feel different from each other - and to me, having all of them get a dice pool that regenerates every round to boost damage/reduce damage/special manuevers, even if some of those are class-specific is too similar.
I think there are some alternate dice-based mechanic possibilities out there: you could have a dice-generating class, so that you start off with one dice and then keep building them throughout the encounter (this might suit a Ranger or Assassin for example, if they're building up dice as they stalk their target), or you could have a dice pool that only refereshes when you drop an enemy (maybe more of an Assassin vibe), etc.
However, I think there are diminishing returns to this strategy as far as uniqueness goes.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 06, 2012 - 4:29PM
#3
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Thinking about combat superiority I started to envision the idea that it could be the basic mechanic for all "martial" characters (using "martial" as non-spellcasters). Nothing about combat superiority screams "fighter" to me, but it does a good job in modeling martial abilities in general.
-snip-
I think there are some alternate dice-based mechanic possibilities out there: you could have a dice-generating class, so that you start off with one dice and then keep building them throughout the encounter (this might suit a Ranger or Assassin for example, if they're building up dice as they stalk their target), or you could have a dice pool that only refereshes when you drop an enemy (maybe more of an Assassin vibe), etc.
I may get some flak for this, but I like the idea of the rogue getting a form of combo points like in WoW. DDN's version of combo points could take the form of generating dice in combat.
Why Mechanics-Alignment Integration is Bad
Show
so why even play a fighter if you can play the paladin the exact same way behaviorally and get added power to boot. "Paladin" is about accepting better game-enhancing mechanics at the price of more rigid in game behavior.
Really? So it goes something like this?
Fighter: "I want to be a paladin."
NPC: "Really?"
Fighter: "Yes."
NPC: "Very well." Starts reading from a holy book while still in-character "Do you accept having to choose and stick to the lawful good alignment, eventhough neither of us actually knows that it exists or what it is?"
Fighter: "I do."
NPC: "Do you reject good game balance because you accidentally rolled a high Charisma?"
Fighter: "What?"
NPC: "I don't know what it means either."
Fighter: "Oh. Umm, ok I do."
NPC: "In the name of all that is metagamey and broken, accept these better game enhancing mechanics."
Fighter: "These what?"
NPC: "Just get out there and try to fulfill a million different people's notion of good while not violating and part of any of them."
So the system is designed such that every single hit needs to be described to avoid confusion? Here's a scenario. The players are nudists, everybody in the world are nudists, it's not weird, it's totally normal in this land. They are naked and they fight drakes taking damage throughout, but healing up with surges. Later they meet the guy who raised the drakes.
Part 1: I didn't describe any of the hits. What does he see?
Part 2: Lets say I described the drakes as biting the players, yet they healed up. What does he see?
D20 Modern Toon PC Race.
Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 06, 2012 - 4:37PM
#4
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- Unconventional Mafia Pro
- Dark Lord
Date Joined:
Jun 25, 2001
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All martials could use some sort of dice pool
Only fighters should have Combat Superiority (Have XdN, replenished every round): monks could have "Focus" (XdN, regenerating after a short rest), for instance. Rogues have Sneak Attack as their ability ('normal' and 'martial' are not one in the same. Rogues are not primary line combatants)
"Enjoy your screams, Sarpadia - they will soon be muffled beneath snow and ice." THE COALITION WAR GAME-Phyrexian Praetor Round 1: (4-1-2, 1 kill) Round 2: (16-8-2, 4 kills) Round 3: (18-9-2, 1 kill) Round 4: (22-10-0, 2 kills) Round 5: (56-16-3, 9 kills) Round 6: (8-7-1) [current round] Last Edited by Ralph on blank, 1920
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10 months ago ::
Aug 06, 2012 - 4:42PM
#5
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Meh, theres room for a complex “spellslot” warrior. I can see a Warlord working this way, with Atwills and Novas, and reliable Encounter powers.
A Monk might work well with a “spellpoint” mechanic, representing Chi/Ki energy, stamina for physical stunts.
And so on.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 06, 2012 - 4:44PM
#6
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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Meh, theres room for a complex “spellslot” warrior. I can see a Warlord working this way, with Atwills and Novas, and reliable Encounter powers.
A Monk might work well with a “spellpoint” mechanic, representing Chi/Ki energy.
I am still freaking out over the suggestion of a Vancian Warlord.. what freaks me out it didnt make me rech like a dog.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 06, 2012 - 9:30PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Oct 11, 2009
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Meh, theres room for a complex “spellslot” warrior. I can see a Warlord working this way, with Atwills and Novas, and reliable Encounter powers.
A Monk might work well with a “spellpoint” mechanic, representing Chi/Ki energy.
I am still freaking out over the suggestion of a Vancian Warlord.. what freaks me out it didnt make me rech like a dog.
I'm glad to see that some people are finally realizing just how "Vancian" ("spellslot") the AEDU system really is.
I've never understood the whole Vancian argument.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 06, 2012 - 9:36PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Sep 20, 2004
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I would like to see every class get its own unique mechanic, but rogues do need something. It would be neat if they could convert their sneak attack dice into special effects, like ongoing damage, debuffs, and the like. Any time a rogue gets a sneak attack it could figure out exactly what it wants to do, with some special type of effects only being applicable to specific creature types.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 06, 2012 - 10:17PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Dec 11, 2011
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I've been playing with the idea of Martial Dice ever since Combat Superiority was announced. Martial Dice is a sort of catch-all term for dice pools martial characters get, in the same sense that Arcane classes have access to an arcane spell list, Divines get their divine spells and whatnot. It helps differentiate the power sources.
- Fighters get CS Dice, as already mentionned;
- Rogues already have Sneak Dice (I had originally thought of Skill Dice, but this week's L&L kinda shot that idea);
- Rangers get Quarry Dice: they have a pool of dice they can assign to certain targets and declare to use these dice when they make an attack roll in order to deal extra damage. It works in a similar fashion to the 4e Assassin's Shrouds. Only one Quarry Die may be placed per round, you can stack multiple QD on one target and they are all expended whether you hit or miss;
- Warlords get Inspiration Dice: ID are used to hand out temp HP during combat and are refreshed after a short rest. Could also be used for certain social interactions.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 07, 2012 - 12:06AM
#10
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Date Joined:
Feb 12, 2009
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I guess this is the note of a good subsystem. When a thread shows up saying give it to everyone/larger group of classes. Happened for rogue schemes, and now for combat superiority. It's not necesarily a bad idea, but I think a big part of the 5e design is to absolutely not do this. I think it's going to be more than likely that sub systems are somewhat class specific. To avoid that everyone is the same feel that some people got from 4e. Like none of the ideas here are bad, but I think they will be avoiding making mechanics like this recognizably the same across multiple classes. IMO an awesome move. Hard as heck to design initially but I think in the end it will really make gameplay very varried and really give each class it's own feel.
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