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11 months ago ::
Aug 03, 2012 - 12:47PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Jul 29, 2012
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So in reading and playing the next version, the one thing that keeps jumping out is the symplicity of it. With the original rules the DM ruled the game. Rule where simple - and no complexity was needed to make the game fun. 4e seemed to me to be trying to be Warhammer in the way it focused on minitures and movement. I never felt 1/2 version was about minitures but about telling a story and just having fun.
Many DMs here seem to be slaves to the rules - I say use as many or as few to run your games. The core mechanics should be simple to use and transparent to the fun to be had in the game. The fact that in 2nd ed the occupations were optional was huge.
Next is going in the right direction.
Keep It Stupid Simple - and for DMs that want to get all complex with their game make it optional (as if you have to play all the rules!).
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11 months ago ::
Aug 03, 2012 - 12:52PM
#2
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As long as simple isn't dull. Playtesting this during round one was painfully dull.
...whatever
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11 months ago ::
Aug 03, 2012 - 12:57PM
#3
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I was expecting some vintage Gene Simmons. I r disappointed!  KISS is a good idea. It's not going to work for the 'modern' players (for lack of a better term), though. Better to give in and try to find a middle ground than watch the whole idea go up in smoke. At least...for a time. Until you can't handle it anymore. 
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11 months ago ::
Aug 03, 2012 - 1:26PM
#4
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Date Joined:
May 25, 2012
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Sorry for my ignorance, but what KISS stand for? Someone can explain me, please? 
DM: Products of MY Imagination ©. Since 1986.
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11 months ago ::
Aug 03, 2012 - 1:27PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Aug 15, 2011
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Sorry for my ignorance, but what KISS stand for?
Someone can explain me, please?
Keep It Short and Simple.
(Alternate: Keep It Simple, Stupid.)
The (slight) issue, of course, is that simplicity varies by individual. When people tell me that 4e is too complicated, I usually tilt my head confusedly, as I never found it very complicated at all, especially compared to 3e.
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11 months ago ::
Aug 03, 2012 - 1:35PM
#6
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Date Joined:
Nov 16, 2009
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I think examples and guidelines for improvisation would do good for this.
The problem with a simple ruleset is that not every DM is a "good dm" nor is every player a great improviser. When they see choices, often they see that as a limitation of the most varied things they can do and not an opportunity for improvisation. I think this really comes down to the core mechanic- that is roll a d20 and add your ability modifier.
The problem is the ability scores aren't defined outside of their use within a class, or not well imo. Define them, explain to players what they should try via improvisation with examples, and let them loose. A large ruleset with a huge list of choices means that they will probably not try something thats not listed. Alternatively a small ruleset with only 2-3 choices will mean they have to improvise most anything they want to do. Having less codified spells and abilities means players can try to make up more of what they're doing. DMs can bend the rules whenever they need to make the game better- why shouldn't players get the same option? It still has the roll vs DC chance to fail, but it opens so many possibilities...
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11 months ago ::
Aug 03, 2012 - 1:50PM
#7
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While I agree the core rules should be as simple as they can be and still give the rules a D&D sense, I think the one thing I am looking for is a return of the GM as a required part of the game. When I read some of the comments on this board I cringe. It is as if the role of GM has been reduced to the computer AI on a MMO. The players seem to think they should be in control of what is and is not right in the game. This then drives the need for rules for everything.
While I have had a good time with each edition so far, it was the game that made me happy and not the rule book.
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11 months ago ::
Aug 03, 2012 - 2:00PM
#8
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While I agree the core rules should be as simple as they can be and still give the rules a D&D sense, I think the one thing I am looking for is a return of the GM as a required part of the game. When I read some of the comments on this board I cringe. It is as if the role of GM has been reduced to the computer AI on a MMO. The players seem to think they should be in control of what is and is not right in the game. This then drives the need for rules for everything.
While I have had a good time with each edition so far, it was the game that made me happy and not the rule book.
Woo Hoo... go Tin God...!
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11 months ago ::
Aug 03, 2012 - 2:11PM
#9
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While I agree the core rules should be as simple as they can be and still give the rules a D&D sense, I think the one thing I am looking for is a return of the GM as a required part of the game. When I read some of the comments on this board I cringe. It is as if the role of GM has been reduced to the computer AI on a MMO. The players seem to think they should be in control of what is and is not right in the game. This then drives the need for rules for everything.
While I have had a good time with each edition so far, it was the game that made me happy and not the rule book.
As a player, I would rather the system decide the outcome of my actions than the DM, and as a DM vice versa. The system is something a player can understand ahead of time, and make informed tactical decisions based in that understanding. This as opposed to success being based on DM whim, which is less knowable and in comparison feels like fumbling around in the dark. I'd rather be skilled at knowing the system and making educated decisions based on it than be skilled at reading the DM's mind. Mother may I can lead to a negotiation/debate between the player and DM over the resolution of something, which is something I have violent hatred for, and have hated it since my AD&D days.
The system can't cover anything, and some things by necessity should be left to the DM's discretion, but this should be kept to a minimum IMO.
...whatever
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11 months ago ::
Aug 03, 2012 - 2:27PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Apr 23, 2009
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While I agree the core rules should be as simple as they can be and still give the rules a D&D sense, I think the one thing I am looking for is a return of the GM as a required part of the game. When I read some of the comments on this board I cringe. It is as if the role of GM has been reduced to the computer AI on a MMO. The players seem to think they should be in control of what is and is not right in the game. This then drives the need for rules for everything.
While I have had a good time with each edition so far, it was the game that made me happy and not the rule book.
+1.
I don't know why the others play D&D. MMO's are far more impartial and resolve things instantly. For me pen and paper will survive and not be eliminated by roleplaying games (at least not soon) because of DM adjudication instead of a mechanical rule.
And I'm not anti-base line rule. I just like players to be able to use their abilities in unpredictable ways. It is usually this sort of thing that is the most memorable in D&D games. At least thats been my experience. I don't like spells that are so sanitized that they can only do one exact thing and nothing else.
I just heard someone say on these boards that web couldn't be burned in 4e. Wow. Another reason to hate that approach.
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