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Aug 10, 2012 -- 8:49PM, MechaPilot wrote:

Any unique features that get added to the classes will bake-in more flavor that makes it harder to then reflavor the class if you want to play say a vancian warlock or a spell point wizard.

From what I've been able to tell, with the direction they're taking it and what's been announced so far, a spell point wizard would be a contradiction in terms.  Literally, there is zero flavor associated with a wizard other than that is is a Vancian caster.  

Assuming they'll do something similar for sorcerer and warlock, they should be completely interchangeable in every way, except their casting method.

Aug 10, 2012 -- 8:46PM, Qmark wrote:

Aug 10, 2012 -- 8:37PM, Mithrus wrote:

As long as every class gets unique features outside of spells, I think this is the way to go.

Alright then, let's hear some ideas for "unique features".

I hope you won't count this as a cop-out, but:

Cleric
Druid
Sorcerer
Wizard
Alchemist
Inquisitor
Oracle
Summoner
Witch

Each of these classes are full casters, yet they have plenty besides spell selection for features. Granted, 5e won't have classes have quite so many features, but there's a lot of cool ideas there. Cleric domains, sorcerer bloodlines, wizard schools, et al all grant other features besides spells or spell-enhancing features. Lots of unique flavor, even with shared mechanics.

Aug 10, 2012 -- 9:49PM, mexrage wrote:

...yeah, 4e have all that, and also unique/exclusive class based "spell list"...

why go only for one thing, when you could do both and make the classes even more distinct? 

   Only it's not really that unique/exclusive.  In practice, you end up with a lot of spells that are really similar, but have a different name and a slightly tweaked effect at most. Range 15ish, roll vs Ref, blast 2ish, 2dX, and ongoing fire damage. Sure the exact details are different, but conceptually, however, they are more or less the same: fireblasts. 
 
   When the Wizard, Cleric, and Warlock all have some variation of a fireblast, you have to wonder whether or not it would have been simpler to have just printed that one power and state that all of them could use it.

  I feel much the same way about Martial exploits.  You don't need to design a seperate tripping maneuver for the Fighter, Rogue, and Ranger classes.  Just design a single trip maneuver and give them all access to it.

  The main benefit is that you save a lot on space.  Instead of having to design a couple dozen unique abilities for five classes each, you can just design a handful of specific class unique abilities, a dozen more general ones, and mix and match how the classes access them. Saves on space.  It also makes the classes seem a little less overwhelming.

    More or less what 3E did for all spellcaster spell lists after the PHB the Tome of Battle classes did for selecting martial maneuvers.  It's actually something of a mish mash of class/classless design.

Aug 10, 2012 -- 10:28PM, Qmark wrote:

Aug 10, 2012 -- 9:01PM, Saelorn wrote:

Literally, there is zero flavor associated with a wizard other than that is is a Vancian caster.

Why should there be?
And how is that even flavor?

If there is a spellbook, that is flavor.  If the wizard is required to study their spells, that is flavor.  Some of these are easier to change than others (for example, time spent studying can be changed to meditation or practicing their casting techniques.  However, the need for a spellbook is not so simple as that).

Aug 10, 2012 -- 10:33PM, Qmark wrote:

Aug 10, 2012 -- 10:31PM, MechaPilot wrote:

If there is a spellbook, that is flavor.  If the wizard is required to study their spells, that is flavor.  Some of these are easier to change than others (for example, time spent studying can be changed to meditation or practicing their casting techniques.  However, the need for a spellbook is not so simple as that).

So we define that as "School Access: all of them", and throw in the bat poo gimmick.

Vancian or Spontaneous or Points or whatever is immaterial to the above.

In concept, yes.  However, in practice, it depends on how the rules are written.  If the vancian caster is the only one who has spellbook rules, then it becomes a vancian only flavor mechanic.