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So, there's a bit of kerfuffle here and there about 'vancian=wizard' and so forth, and people who might like to, say, use the wizard spells without being restricted by their casting mechanisms.

So, here's a thought ... why not have the game's spells *not* organized by class?  No such thing as 'wizard spells', 'cleric spells', 'warlock spells', 'druid spells' or whatnot.  Each class might have its own casting mechanism, but all you need to do is not get hung up on names.  Scratch off 'warlock' and write in 'wizard' and go to town.

Instead, organize spells by damage type, theme, school, or whatnot.  You might have a list of Fire spells, Divination spells, Storm spells, Plant spells, Summoning spells, Healing spells, Necromancy spells, etc etc.

At character creation, you select a certain number of these groups to have access to; for argument now, we'll say two (possibly an option to just be really good at one if you really want to just kill it with fire).  Your Pelorite cleric might pick Healing and Light, your blasty-happy wizard may select Fire and Lightning.  HOWEVER, you could have a warlock who also has Healing and Light, as his pact was with a beneficent entity rather than the more traditional options.  The player would work with the DM to select categories appropriate to his character concept.  A cleric of a more aggressive god might take the Fire and Lightning combo.

As a level-up option (not every level, of course), you could choose to either diversify or specialize.  You could add an additional spell group to your repertoire, or choose to gain some kind of benefit (damage, additional spells, something) with a spell group you already have.

Aug 2, 2012 -- 9:44PM, AlmightyK wrote:

i see what you are saying but explain to me why anyone would play a wizard over a cleric if the cleric can get the same spells AND do all the fighty things

The wizard would also have class features to compensate, obviously.  If nothing else, give the wizard more spell slots than the cleric.

That also makes assumptions about the cleric, of course, that they *would* automatically get armor, weapons, etc superior to the wizard.  That's something else that needs adjusting, IMHO.

what if it was instead split into arcane and divine.

then it would come down to preffered casting style for that type

Aug 2, 2012 -- 9:48PM, mexrage wrote:

And this will also indeed make all classes play the same, the last time i played 3.5 (before 4e was released), i saw shared spells being shared as a HUGE flaw in the game, to make fun of it, i selected the same spells the wizard in the group almost always choose as a sorcerer, and i will always cast the same spell she caster after she cast it, this is to make the point that playing a wizard and a sorcerer was the exact same thing, because you cast the exact same spells.

Shared Spell List is one of the dealbreakers for me for D&DNext, all classes should have their own unique spell list not shared (some rituals being the exception), if not, what's the point of playing those diferent classes if they cast the exact same spells...

...umm...Mexrage?  Yah.  Umm...no one thought they were supposed to be any different other than -how- they cast.  That's why even the SRD has them on the same page.

Aug 2, 2012 -- 9:48PM, mexrage wrote:

And this will also indeed make all classes play the same, the last time i played 3.5 (before 4e was released), i saw shared spells being shared as a HUGE flaw in the game, to make fun of it, i selected the same spells the wizard in the group almost always choose as a sorcerer, and i will always cast the same spell she caster after she cast it, this is to make the point that playing a wizard and a sorcerer was the exact same thing, because you cast the exact same spells.

Shared Spell List is one of the dealbreakers for me for D&DNext, all classes should have their own unique spell list not shared (some rituals being the exception), if not, what's the point of playing those diferent classes if they cast the exact same spells...

Or how about, not a shared list but instead merely some repeated spells.

for example, why could a sorceror NOT cast fireball?