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11 months ago ::
Aug 01, 2012 - 8:49AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Nov 22, 2007
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The debate of warlords and martial healing in general has been an ongoing theme since the inclusion of martial healing in 4e.
To reach a compromise in this heated debate I would like to invite both fans of the Warlord and those opposed to the concept of martial healing in general to gather here and help determine a way to work the Warlord class into something we can all accept.
This thread is not for deriding or supporting the concept of martial healing.
If you are opposed to martial healing please give positive suggestions on how the Warlord might be built in a way that is acceptable to your views without eliminating the uniqueness of the class.
If you are a fan of martial healing please do not target those who disagree by insisting that their views are not viable. Instead attempt to give reasonable suggestions as to how to accomplish the goal of creating a Warlord that is acceptable to those who oppose your views while maintaining what is at the heart of the Warlord.
As an opponent of the general martial healing I do recognize the Warlord as a unique class design and do feel that it's overall feel could greatly benifit Next.
Please be courteous and contribute positively to the thread.
Brave Knights of W.T.F. Gryphon Helm Winner.
Edition wars kill players, this will kill Dungeons and Dragons.
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11 months ago ::
Aug 01, 2012 - 8:55AM
#2
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I like martial healing. It reminds me of Rocky and John McClain, of old school war movies where the sarge says the right thing in the darkest time to get his guys up and moving again, or Westerns when the hero has been beaten down, but the call of an endangered girlfirend gets him back up and fighting harder than ever. Since hit points aren't actual wounds, it makes total sense to me that someone can dig down and find a little more "OOMPH" to get through the fight. To me the warlord should be focused on bringing out that "OOMPH" by providing extra attacks, healing, and temporary hit points.
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11 months ago ::
Aug 01, 2012 - 8:58AM
#3
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To address "healing" we ought to agree, for debate purposes on standard definitions of HP, damage, and healing.
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11 months ago ::
Aug 01, 2012 - 8:58AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Sep 19, 2006
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For the concept of non-magical healing, I believe temporary hit points is the way to go. Additionally, I like the idea of the Warlord being able to let PCs use their Hit Die for healing without the use if a healing kit.
They should also be able to use a specidic action to allow PCs extra attacks and remove negative conditions.
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11 months ago ::
Aug 01, 2012 - 8:58AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Nov 22, 2007
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I like martial healing. It reminds me of Rocky and John McClain, of old school war movies where the sarge says the right thing in the darkest time to get his guys up and moving again, or Westerns when the hero has been beaten down, but the call of an endangered girlfirend gets him back up and fighting harder than ever. Since hit points aren't actual wounds, it makes total sense to me that someone can dig down and find a little more "OOMPH" to get through the fight. To me the warlord should be focused on bringing out that "OOMPH" by providing extra attacks, healing, and temporary hit points.
I can see temporary HP easily filling the role that you describe without actually healing anything.
I'd rather not get into the discussion of what HP mean here because as we all know that is a very contentious subject on it's own.
If the Warlord could provide additional attacks and temp HP would healing be a must have to create what you have described?
Brave Knights of W.T.F. Gryphon Helm Winner.
Edition wars kill players, this will kill Dungeons and Dragons.
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11 months ago ::
Aug 01, 2012 - 9:00AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Nov 22, 2007
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To address "healing" we ought to agree, for debate purposes on standard definitions of HP, damage, and healing.
I think that trying to do so will not be benificial to this thread.
Let us instead concentrate on how to make the Warlord unique without getting into the varried views on HP meaning.
Brave Knights of W.T.F. Gryphon Helm Winner.
Edition wars kill players, this will kill Dungeons and Dragons.
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11 months ago ::
Aug 01, 2012 - 9:03AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Nov 22, 2007
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For the concept of non-magical healing, I believe temporary hit points is the way to go. Additionally, I like the idea of the Warlord being able to let PCs use their Hit Die for healing without the use if a healing kit. They should also be able to use a specidic action to allow PCs extra attacks and remove negative conditions.
I agree that allowing Warlords to give others the ability to spend Hit Die could be a mechanic unique to the class that would help bridge the gap between my views on martial healing and those that oppose it.
I also think that allowing others to take the attack in place of the Warlord should be an option unique to them.
Removing negative conditions... can you elaborate on specifics here?
Brave Knights of W.T.F. Gryphon Helm Winner.
Edition wars kill players, this will kill Dungeons and Dragons.
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11 months ago ::
Aug 01, 2012 - 9:05AM
#8
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Date Joined:
May 25, 2012
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I'll repost what i wrote in the other thread with some addition because is pertinent here: I think the idea of every class have something unique is fundamentally correct because this exclude on principle stacking bonuses. At the same time i absolutely loathe the 3.x different kind of bonuses (15 different kind of bonuses! omg). Given so, i can easily see a warlord theme/class who has the unique mechanic of giving temp hit point to everyone, with a mechanic akin to combat superiority..let's call it "Battle inspiration". Other classes could have something similar,but confined to themselves only. examples:
- fighters get CS ,usable for various stunts
- clerics,druids,divine casters are the only ones who can cure permanent hp in combat but ,at the very best can give temp hp to themselves only (a divine bless of sort,see paladins below).
- warlord can use "battle inspiration" dices to give temp hp and maybe some bonuses to allies like dr,damage and/or accuracy; i dont like the idea of "switching" attack tho.
- paladins are configurable as a hybrid warlord/fighter/cleric, who can give some numerical bonus to allies (resistance to fear,+1 to hit in 3mts radius,etc),can use some clerical ability (spells,lay hands,turning),can "inspire" himself with some temp hp,and has a good selection of weapons/armors.
In my opinion though,i believe that warlords do not need to be a class, but a Fighter specialty. I'm not opposed in principle (if wotc do a class i'm ok),but in literature i have ever seen commanders as fighters with a different set of skills,not a different class. Even in real world officials are the same class of a sergeant, but with different skills.
DM: Products of MY Imagination ©. Since 1986.
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11 months ago ::
Aug 01, 2012 - 9:05AM
#9
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Yeah, I'd like them to actually heal.
If we don't have an agreement on what hit points are though, it seem difficult to define the warlord. If hit points are actual deep cuts/smashed limbs where organs are pouring out/bones are broken, then yes Martial healing is silly in the extreme, but if hit points are as they have historically been described in D&D (luck, skill and endurance) then I don't see why martial healing can't exist alongside magical healing that does the same thing.
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11 months ago ::
Aug 01, 2012 - 9:12AM
#10
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Date Joined:
Dec 27, 2011
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Thank you for opening this thread!
Personally, I think that the warlord's healing should be relatively limited. He's more of a commander than a healer; he doesn't need as much healing power as the cleric does. So the warlord makes up for this with tactical powers/class features, which allow him to maneuver his allies around the battlefield, lining up attacks and organizing retreat.
Here's what I would give the warlord, to use a 3.5e-style layout (kinda):
*Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: The warlord is proficient with simple and martial melee weapons, basic (and maybe complex) ranged weapons, and all armor and shields.
*Hit Dice: The warlord uses d10 hit dice.
*Tactical Readiness: The warlord's training entails learning how to avoid ambushes, and notice one coming. The warlord and allies that can see him gain +1 to Perception checks to spot hidden threats. This includes hidden traps (maybe?).
*Tactical Positioning: The warlord has learned how to position his allies to gain the advantage. Once per turn, when the warlord takes an action, one ally that can see him can move his/her speed. (This one may need fixing/removal.)
*Inspiring Word: The warlord's battle cry is an inspiration to greater glory for his allies. When the warlord takes an action, he can make a DC X Charisma check to inspire an ally that can see and hear him take an action. This can only be used once per day per ally, as such a maneuver is taxing on an ally.
For healing, the warlord can always take the Medic feat, to gain some healing power.
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