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Jul 22, 2012 -- 8:59AM, Ahglock wrote:

Second point.  I disagree, every base class shown so far is a broad concept.   Let people specialize with backgrounds, themes, and in play.  I would not mind if some level of specialization was required to gain access to certain spells though, so you have to take the beguiler theme to learn things like dominate.  

Yes, just like I don't want the Charmer or Schmoozer class.

Jul 22, 2012 -- 6:52AM, Steely_Dan wrote:

I said this in another post, but why are people trying to force the D&D Wizard to be non-Vancian, it has been that way until a few year ago when Heinsoo & co decided to make every class the same (aside from features)?

There is plenty of room for other magic-using types: artificers, binders, incarnates, sorcerers, truenamers warlocks etc, etc. 

If people hate the way this game has been for over 30 years, why continue to play it, and enforce your deal on it? 

*runs of to rewrite Axis & Allies, Trivial Pursuit and Squad Leader* 

Because having completly separated "Spell list" for casters it's making them the same, right?

Seriously...former editions class did felt the same,  most non-caster classes were only a set of modifiers and proficencies, and all caster shared the same spell list...
I played a sorcerer and a wizard on 3rd...i felt like i was playing the same character, because i was doing exactly the same...i was casting the exact same spells...
 
Just because now all class get abilities, instead of just modifiers, and get them at the same rate, and that the attack procedure for both implement/magic and weapon attacks have been steamlined into one (why the hell would you want to have to diferent procedures to the same end, resolving an attack?) doesn't make a all the classes the same...hell, you can have 2 characters of the same class on 4e on the table, and they would play very diferent from each other.
 

Jul 22, 2012 -- 12:34PM, Steely_Dan wrote:

Jul 22, 2012 -- 12:01PM, SYB wrote:

But, I can also mention Risk, Clue, and even Monopoly in that list.

Completely?

Not completely.  But then again, we aren't discussing changing D&D completely either.  We are discussing changing one aspect of one rules subsystem.  Wizards aren't the entire game.  They aren't even a major component of the game.  They are one of FOUR iconic classes in a game where DM rules, monster rules, and player rules (of which classes are basically the biggest part of) are equally important.

-SYB

Jul 22, 2012 -- 4:37PM, Garthanos wrote:

Jul 22, 2012 -- 3:17PM, SYB wrote:

 They aren't even a major component of the game.   

-SYB

Spell casting took up how many pages of every players handbook... ok perhaps less in 4e.

I would have to review all the PHBs, but looking at my 4e PHB I see 3 pages allocated for defining the cleric and another 12 pages for all the cleric powers, and that's just for one class.    In fact, most of the pages in the 4e PHB are devoted to powers alone, with substance replaced by white space and a large font.