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11 months ago ::
Jul 09, 2012 - 9:35PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Sep 30, 2006
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Rule of Three 7/10/2012 by Rodney Thompson ou've got questions—we've got answers! Here's how it works—each week, our Community Manager will be scouring all available sources to find whatever questions you're asking. We'll pick three of them for R&D to answer. Talk about this article here. 
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11 months ago ::
Jul 09, 2012 - 9:58PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Mar 19, 2004
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For those classes who don't have daily resources, we're still balancing the character against the length of that expected adventuring day, using hit points as our main (but not only) indicator of when that character's day is finished
Ohohoooo boy. This doesn't look good at all.
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11 months ago ::
Jul 09, 2012 - 10:17PM
#3
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elaborate, please.
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11 months ago ::
Jul 09, 2012 - 10:25PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Mar 19, 2004
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That quote should already explain itself. Moar HP (and HD, I reckon) can, apparently, be a substitute for daily features.
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11 months ago ::
Jul 09, 2012 - 10:27PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Mar 31, 2012
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1) I don't really have much to say about this. I think they just about got this one right.
2) I disagree with this point. What I see them trying to say here is that what they learned from 4e about "5 minute workdays" is that if they give an appropriate number of daily resources for the adventuring day, then everything is fine. While I think that is a step in the right direction, I think what really made 4e better on the "5-minute workday" ground was the existance of Encounter resources. At-wills, as they currently exist are not quite cutting it. As long as Daily resources exist, there will be pressure to cut the adventuring day shorter, no matter how good the "math behind the game" they have, or the existance of At-will spells. Even 4e had this, to a slight extent. If you misjudged which encounter was the supposed "tough one" and blew all your dailies on a fight, only to realize that the face-off with the Guardian of the Temple was next, if there's no time constraints, people are going to have pressure to call it a day, and then face the Guardian in the morning. Granted, most DMs make sure there's some sort of time pressure, which trumps the pressures to call it a day. However what 4e did well, was to give Encounter resources, which meant that if you were going into a big fight, with your dailies spent, you still had a bit of a sporting chance, so the time pressures could more easily trump the pressures to rest.
And that's a reason I want to see encounter resources return: they reduce the pressures to call an adventuring day short.
3) I like this as a method of dealing with modules, but this is generally how I saw it working before. However there were things that I really liked in the post, that were more hints on things we didn't see in the playtest: Tumble-type abilities (indicating AoOs may be back), Forced and Voluntary movement (I know we got some of it, but it seems like there will be more of it; perhaps from Warlords for the voluntary side) and adding a Firearms module.
I am currently raising funds to run for President in 2016. Too many administrations have overlooked the international menace, that is Carmen Sandiego. I shall devote any and all necessary military resources to bring her to justice.
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11 months ago ::
Jul 09, 2012 - 10:31PM
#6
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That quote should already explain itself. Moar HP (and HD, I reckon) can, apparently, be a substitute for daily features.
that's rather an unnecessary simplification. hp as a "main (but not only) indicator" is not a wholesale substitution. if i were inclined to guess, i'd say you're more annoyed that there will be classes without daily resources, in a general sense...but the devs have made it clear they don't want to force all players to deal with such elements, so there must necessarily be classes without them. the quote in question just points out the obvious - that there have to be other yardsticks for gauging/pacing the adventuring day.
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11 months ago ::
Jul 09, 2012 - 10:59PM
#7
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So HP is supposed to be a "daily" resource. This means over the course of the day class A (who has no other daily resources) is expected to run out of HP by the end of the day. So unless we have some 4e healing surge like mechanic class A starts each fight with progressively less HP. This also means that no single fight can pose a significant challenge to class A (because each fight must only drain about 25% of class A's HP and healing resources). So the only way to actually provide deadly fights to players is go over the expected 4 fights per day or throw in the occasional random SoD.
Ummm....
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11 months ago ::
Jul 09, 2012 - 11:17PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Mar 19, 2004
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@Asmodius
Acutally, it's that last part that I'm worried about. Whatever "measuring stick" they're producing will be inherently more difficult to make and less accurate. That's the natural consequence of trying to gauge together different components that aren't directly related to each other.
@Lawolf
That's a big leap, but admittedly I wouldn't be at all surprised if something like that happened...
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11 months ago ::
Jul 09, 2012 - 11:35PM
#9
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So HP is supposed to be a "daily" resource. This means over the course of the day class A (who has no other daily resources) is expected to run out of HP by the end of the day. So unless we have some 4e healing surge like mechanic class A starts each fight with progressively less HP. This also means that no single fight can pose a significant challenge to class A (because each fight must only drain about 25% of class A's HP and healing resources). So the only way to actually provide deadly fights to players is go over the expected 4 fights per day or throw in the occasional random SoD. Ummm....
that's not what i got out of this at all - there's a difference between an "average" fight and an interesting one. bad tactics, bad luck, or just a challenging fight can easily wear someone down more than that, and this used to be just a basic concern of adventuring - whatever the wizard's spell slots looked like, if the fighter was running out of juice, the group would be looking back toward town (barring unusual circumstances).
@Asmodius
Acutally, it's that last part that I'm worried about. Whatever "measuring stick" they're producing will be inherently more difficult to make and less accurate. That's the natural consequence of trying to gauge together different components that aren't directly related to each other.
well, more difficult/less accurate than what? what's your proposed "adventuring day" scaled to? the casters alone? nothing at all? that's an option, i guess, but pacing out the game can and should involve more than daily powers.
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11 months ago ::
Jul 10, 2012 - 12:48AM
#10
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I HATE this reference to 5 minute work-days. I have been playing incarnations of D&D since '84 and DMing for at least 2 decades and my groups never run 5 minute workdays. The wizards find other things to do. Wands, scrolls, etc, mean that their memorised spells are their utility spells and can be varied on a daily basis. Fireball is ALWAYS useful so a wizard worth his salt will make sure he has a wand of fireballs (or similar) and doesn't waste his daily resources on that spell. Wizards can use ALL magic items; no UMD skill, no restrictions. It's a class ability for them and if you are not making use of it, it is like complaining that your fighter is getting hurt because YOU choose not to make use of his ability to wear armour! If it's a class ability, it is there to be used!
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