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Jul 4, 2012 -- 9:41PM, lokiare wrote:

I'm sorry to do this but since the Wizard in 5E is vancian, the 4E AEDU Wizard fans are going to have to steal the 5E Sorcerer.

If you have a problem with us turning the 5E sorcerer into a copy of the 4E AEDU Wizard, then you need to post in the "Easy Fixes for 5E" thread and the "Linear Fighters, Quadratic Wizards" thread voicing your displeasure at 4E wizard fans stealing the 5E Sorcerer...

Who died and made you king?

Seriously, what gives you the right to speak so categorically for all fans of your preferred edition and playing style?

Who do you think will sit up and answer the calls that you put out?

Z.

Jul 5, 2012 -- 5:28AM, Bronze_Hero wrote:

That's what I'm saying I can't see how they will hit, for me of course, with a theme/background instead of a class.

Well, I'm not sure either, but if they build enough versatility into another class, then it's doable. There are a lot of "classless" games out there that you can build an archetypical paladin, ranger, monk, druid, fighter or just about anything else in, so it's certainly possible.

If they included a theme/background that gave an animal companion, and one that offers turn undead and lay on hands or a crusader strike type ability, those are pretty much how I define a paladin, so stick those on the fighter and you've got something pretty close. Assuming you take a horse as the companion, that is.

On the other hand, you could have one that offers a couple druidy spells/abilities and you've got a ranger, and you could build it out of either a fighter OR a rogue.

I'm not saying it's ideal, but I'm also not convinced (yet) that it wouldn't work.

Jul 5, 2012 -- 8:16AM, Mithrus wrote:

I just want WotC to change their design and not force a class to use a specific casting style. All it represents is how your resources (ie spells) are managed. If all flavors are balanced, they anyone can pick the style they prefer, right after picking the class the prefer. Using resource management as the primary distinguishing feature of a class is just all sorts of poor design.

I generally agree. It doesn't seem like it'd be too terribly hard to assign each spell an AED category and a power pool cost, and keep relative balance, and of course the pure vancian caster simply treats them all as daily.

Then the Wizard would have three resource tables but would presumably still have the spellbook/prep mechanic.

Sorcerer's and (now) clerics would still have static spells known, but the same three types of resource tables.

Lastly, I suppose there's the Sion, and there's no reason their spells can't function any of the three ways either.

I can foresee some problems coming of it however, particularly where the power pools are concerned. There are certain spells in certain situations that could be unbalanced to cast repeatedly, so the only option would be to either make the spell prohibitively expensive to re-cast (by making the base cost a huge portion of your pool, or by adding an escalating cost to re-cast certain abilities in the same encounter), or to throw an EXTRA encounter or daily limiter in addition to the power pool cost, which kind of defeats the purpose.

Jul 5, 2012 -- 9:16AM, Mithrus wrote:

Jul 5, 2012 -- 9:03AM, Gurka wrote:

I can foresee some problems coming of it however, particularly where the power pools are concerned. There are certain spells in certain situations that could be unbalanced to cast repeatedly, so the only option would be to either make the spell prohibitively expensive to re-cast (by making the base cost a huge portion of your pool, or by adding an escalating cost to re-cast certain abilities in the same encounter), or to throw an EXTRA encounter or daily limiter in addition to the power pool cost, which kind of defeats the purpose.

Either the different systems are generally balanced or not. If they cannot be balanced within reason, then the entire system is flawed and needs to be reconsidered.

Personally, I want the daily refresh mechanic to die a quick death, and replace it with an over-time refresh mechanic. If you can do something cool twice a day in the old system, why can't you get a use back after twelve hours? Start the clock as soon as they use it the first time (assuming they are at max uses).

I'm all for that as well. Rather than having a set time after a full night's rest that you can re-learn or re-charge or whatever, just say that each rest period returns a certain number of spell points, and each spell costs it's spell level in points. A level 1 spell costs 1 pt, a level 5 spell costs 5 pts, etc. I'd say you should still be limited to the number of "rests" you'd normally be allowed (so 4 per day for "short" rests) and one full 8 hr rest, except you can extend the "short" rest periods for additional gain. These numbers are just off the cuff, but something like it. It also has the interesting mechanic of making it much quicker for lower level casters to prep their less powerful spells. Higher level casters require much more of their potential rest return to recharge those high level abilities.

Example:
10 minute rest/downtime: 2 spell points
Extended to 1 hr: +2 more points (4 total)
Extended to 2 hrs: +4 more points (8 total)
Extended to 3 hrs: +6 more points (14 pts)
Extended to 4 hrs: +8 more points (22 pts)
Extended to 6 hrs: +16 more points (38 pts)
8 hrs = all spell slots recovered.

Although it seems likely it will rear it's head, I haven't come across any reference to arcane spell failure in this edition. Perhaps they have finally done away with it. Unfortunately, if it does show back up, and it remains "Arcane Spell Failure", then it would probably continue to apply unless sorcerer spells this time around are defined as some other type of power, be that Divine, Psionic, Infernal or Florgendorff Power. I see no reason for arcane spell failure though, honestly. If the option is available for classes to purchase heavier armor proficiencies (which I hope there are), then paying the price entitles you to use the equipment. The only balance point it might cause are self-targeted AC increasing spells, designed to put the caster on par defensively, with the other classes. Simple fix for that would be to make any such spell set your AC at a fixed number, so that it's not adding a bunch on top of the AC from plate, for instance.

I don't really agree on the V, S or M part however. Personally, I think it should vary based on the caster, and could be determined (to some degree) by theme or background. What I really hope they do is to give each class an equivalent to the rogue's Scheme. For Sorcerer's it would likely be something like Bloodline, and would determine where their power comes from (be it dragons, outsiders, demons, devils, celestial beings, or whatever) which could determine the source of that power for technical purposes, as well as which (if any) components or focuses may be required for casting.