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Agreed.  And the wish to turn it into something it wasn't is the essence of the schism in the first place.  It just wasn't the same.  New players WOULD have played a new version that felt the same as surely as they would have played a new version that wasn't.  Why force the schism?  And why not heal it now that we have the chance.  I'm optimistic.

Jul 24, 2012 -- 7:07PM, AH_Stormbringer wrote:

What outdated means is that the rules were old and had changed little or not at all in almost 30 years. RPG's as a whole have evolved in the last 30 years and the rules systems for the most part have gotten better. If you take the D&D name off of this next edition it prob not do very well as the systems seems primitive by todays standards. There are much better rule systems out there that desingers at WOTC should be looking at for ideas. If they do not think out of the so called box when it comes to this new edition all they are going to do is fragment the playerbase more than it already is. The iconic idea of what the classes are should be thrown out and completely redesigned or do away with the idea of classes all together and just build the type of character you want, that way you get total control over what you are going to play, that to me is the ultimate in customization.

Now, if you want to systems that have changed little over the years, I'd suggest looking at Hero System, Palladium, or Chaosium's BRP. The basic task resolution system, while relatively the same, became more consistent starting with 3e (with the d20 + stat modifiers + other modifiers, always roll high) and now 5e makes saving throws consistent (rather than tacked-on as previously) rolling them into basic ability rolls.

The class/level system is something that may not be to individual tastes (in general, I prefer classless systems, myself), but it's more an issue of individual preference than right/wrong or outdated/modern. While it is a more popular mechanic in video games that TRPGs these days, it is by no means an abandonded concept. For D&D, I think the class/level thing is pretty mandatory, without it it strays too much from its "brand identity"--like if the Final Fantasy franchise became FPSs for future games.

Alterations to an existing game should be to refine the preexisting and make it better, not to abandon older concepts for the sake of pursuing something entirely new.


that existed in D&D of yore and remains in 5e isn't something that needs new shiny--some of the changes over the years have addressed some of the failings

Not all changes are good or even necessary.

I agree with you CVB this game needs to change to grow cause as it stands now the player base gets smaller with each new edition. This is a cold hard fact. If this game uses the rules they are getting us to test we will loose players yet again.