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1 year ago ::
Jun 09, 2012 - 11:04AM
#1
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After running the playtest packet instead of my usual game last night I pretty much lost all of my excitement over the idea of Next. I know this is a beta version but this system feel so bare bones that Savage Worlds looks like a comprehensive game next to it. Also if I had wanted to need to make rulings on every little thing I would already be playing that system.
I honestly want to know what Wizards think they are trying to pull. All of this talk of modularity feels extremely cheap to me because from what I saw last night this game cannot hold my players interest with just the core mechanics. It is basically telling me that I will NEED to purchase modules to even approach the level of tactical depth 4e is already giving my group for our Dungeon Crawler needs. Adventures in confined environments* is all I need the mechanics to be good at and 4e already does this brilliantly.
As it stands the combat in Next is entirely lacklustre. If I had not told the players they were in caves and tunnels they wouldn't have known, it had no effect on people's manoeuvres other than the wall outlines. Movement and positioning were entirely pointless as everything had complete freedom of movement. The traps were nothing but static resource drainers that didn't add anything other than giving the Rogue an opportunity to pass or fail at disarming it. A few were worked into encounters but not in any interesting ways, mostly once again a debuff/HP reduction at the start of a battle.
I am not one of those people who need D&D to be and to do everything so so that you know. I am not afraid of or to lazy to learn multiple systems like many people in the RPG hobby are prone to and when I play D&D it is because I want a Dungeon Crawler. If I wanted to run a Political campaign I would play Reign and if I wanted to run an Urban Fantasy campaign I would use the Dresden Files RPG. Next doesn't do this in my eyes, it is so loose with the way actions work I have to make rulings on everything. That tells me that the system was not designed for what I have in mind but that if I do the developer's job for them it can be used for, then eventually I can pay more money to possibly add the modules I need to it to give it any kind of tactical depth. Why would I ever pay money for that when I already have a codified system my group knows built from the ground up specifically for Dungeon Crawling with the Tactical Depth to keep it interesting for more than 2 hours at a time (4e)? My group does not have attention issues when I comes to getting down to playing tabletop games and all 4 of them were so bored by the time they had cleaned out the Kobolds we stopped playing and went out for drinks.
*Confined environments doesn't automatically mean underground or claustrophobic, just that the adventure site itself is all I care about. It may be sprawling in and of itself.
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1 year ago ::
Jun 09, 2012 - 11:40AM
#2
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Date Joined:
May 30, 2010
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How much did you buy the game for again?
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1 year ago ::
Jun 09, 2012 - 11:49AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
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You do realize the original playtest packet is for playtesting only the specific mechanics included in the packet, right?
This was not the entirety of the core rules. It was a handful of the most basic mechanics that they need to iron out first before they can even approach the level of complexity you're looking for in the rules.
Spoiler:
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I am the Magic Man. (Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.)
I am the Lawnmower Man. (I AM GOD HERE!)
I am the Skull God. (Koo Koo Ka Choo)
There are reasons they call me Mad...
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1 year ago ::
Jun 09, 2012 - 11:51AM
#4
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If that's the case why would they be defending the ideas behind their design choices in articles saying that all of this Fiat is a good thing. If it were merely a place holder until more rules were done they would say that, not propagate the idea that is what they meant to do.
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1 year ago ::
Jun 09, 2012 - 11:53AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Apr 18, 2004
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Yet another person fails to understand the word "playtest." Yay for reading comprehension!
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1 year ago ::
Jun 09, 2012 - 12:04PM
#6
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Yet another person fails to understand the word "playtest." Yay for reading comprehension!
I said I knew it was a Beta. Its also been out for a while now. Where is the next update then? Why are there no forms for me to fill out besides a single survay that skirted around several of the issues I've had with the game and have seen others talking about? Why is there not a much transparency as there should be? Ive been part of playtests before and Wizards is doing a terrible job handling this one.
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1 year ago ::
Jun 09, 2012 - 12:09PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Dec 10, 2008
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You paid nothing for this packet.
It's not even close to what the final game will be like. Not even on the same planet. And furthermore, this is not a "beta" of anything. It probably doesn't even qualify as an "alpha" build. If we're going to go with the software engineering metaphor, this playtest is more like a tech demo.
I haven't read the articles that you cite that allegedly defend DM Fiat though, so I can't comment on that.
OD&D, 1E and 2E challenged the player. 3E challenged the character, not the player. Now 4E takes it a step further by challenging a GROUP OF PLAYERS to work together as a TEAM. That's why I love 4E.
"Your ability to summon a horde of celestial superbeings at will is making my ... BMX skills look a bit redundant."
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1 year ago ::
Jun 09, 2012 - 12:14PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Apr 18, 2004
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I want to believe you, but you say things like, "If I had not told the payers they were in caves and tunnels they wouldn't have known..." Of course they wouldn't, that's your job as DM.
Just an FYI, the playtest emulates Basic/1E very well. On top of that, they will add options that add combat depth. We don't know the pay structure for the modules or how they will be grouped, or if the core books will have some of the modules in them. We just don't know alot of this stuff, and I would be willing to bet that none of it is set in stone at this point. If 4E is all you need, why bother even checking out the playtest materials? You will likely have support for 4E until 5E comes out, then you can decide whether or not to make the switch based on all the information. There is little point in griping at this moment. Also, what should WotC be doing to make this playtest better, besides the very vague "transparency." PS - If they were really transparent, what keeps someone from taking the rules and using them without paying for them. Software designers can be more transparent with how things work, because the code is not published. It doesn't work the same way for TTRPG design.
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1 year ago ::
Jun 09, 2012 - 12:18PM
#9
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You do know that they'll have more modules than these core rules in the PHB right? If you want a system more complex than this you'll get it with core. (Or at least that's the impression I've been given.)
If you're more so asking "Why not play systems geared towards the play style I want instead of patching together modules?" Then I say that's a good question. Look at those systems, are they perfect for you or do you want something a bit different? If they're perfect for you, then use them. If you want something a little different to fit the campaign you have in your mind, you might be able to put to together with modules.
I already have an idea for a story in my head. I would rather have a system I can sew together to fit that story than try and cram it into a system that's not quite made for it.
What I think the Wilder Design Goals should be. Psionic Homebrew Mk2! Changed core, Focus Points, Psionic Potentials, stuff! Very basic core stuff. :P Homebrew Psionics blog posts archive: Spoiler:
Show
UPDATED Dec/18/2012: BAMN! Random update with a modest amount of hard rules for Animal Affinity, Telepathy, and Telekinesis. ADDED: Discipline Burn and more "soft" ideas. Dec/13/2012: Small Psionics Homebrew Update, now that I'm done with Finals.
Really old. Nov/02/2012: I'm working on a homebrew Wilder, and so a homebrew Psionics system. Here's a 3 part post with info on where I am in the design process. Part 1, Hard rules/example soulknife discipline: Link. Part 2, Basic ideas/goals on basic numbers and classes: Link. Part 3, Direction/ideas I want to take with specific disciplines: Link.:3
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1 year ago ::
Jun 09, 2012 - 2:26PM
#10
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This is not a complete ruleset. They told you this. Complaining about it makes you look foolish.
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