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1 year ago ::
Jun 06, 2012 - 8:22PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Mar 26, 2008
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So the Dwarven Fighter has Perception +3
The Rogue has Find Traps +3
How do people think these two skills are going to work? I don't think it's reasonable to speculate that a Rogue is going to be able to get Perception +3 at some point, at which time he'll have 2 skills that give him the same bonus on finding traps.
Do they stack? Do I get an extra +1 to finding traps? Do I simply ignore the "Find Traps" skill and use Perception? Is it only possible to find magical traps if you have "Find Traps"?
All this is largely speculation at this point, but I'm curious how people interpret it. I would be inclined to say you get a "+1" bonus to Find Traps (total of +4) but only have +3 on Remove Traps.
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1 year ago ::
Jun 06, 2012 - 8:30PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Aug 31, 2007
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Do they stack? Do I get an extra +1 to finding traps? Do I simply ignore the "Find Traps" skill and use Perception? Is it only possible to find magical traps if you have "Find Traps"?
Given the bounded math of 5e, stacking it out of the question. A system where you don't get any bonus for overlapping skills seems too restrictive. I'm guessing a flat +1 bonus if you have more then one trained skill that applies is the most likely rule. Anything after that gets excessively complex for little benefit.
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1 year ago ::
Jun 06, 2012 - 8:50PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Aug 31, 2009
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Do they stack? Do I get an extra +1 to finding traps? Do I simply ignore the "Find Traps" skill and use Perception? Is it only possible to find magical traps if you have "Find Traps"?
Given the bounded math of 5e, stacking it out of the question. A system where you don't get any bonus for overlapping skills seems too restrictive. I'm guessing a flat +1 bonus if you have more then one trained skill that applies is the most likely rule. Anything after that gets excessively complex for little benefit.
I doubt that will happen even, at least in this case. My guess is that when the rules are fleshed out more, they'll go into more detail about what the bonuses can and can't be used for when it comes to skills like "Find Traps". My money's on Perception not having anything to do with it and the Find Traps bonus being the only one that applies to locating a trap. They'll probably have similar clarifications on Track as well.
In the event that there is a situation in which multiple bonuses apply at the same time, though, you're probably right that they'll only give an additional +1 bonus and be limited to just one. Or they may not stack at all.
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1 year ago ::
Jun 06, 2012 - 8:58PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Aug 31, 2007
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I doubt that will happen even, at least in this case. My guess is that when the rules are fleshed out more, they'll go into more detail about what the bonuses can and can't be used for when it comes to skills like "Find Traps". My money's on Perception not having anything to do with it and the Find Traps bonus being the only one that applies to locating a trap. They'll probably have similar clarifications on Track as well.
I really don't want to go back to a system where Find Traps is separate from Perception. It creates another situation like the healing cleric, where the party feels that somebody has to take up rogue simply so that somebody has Find Traps. You can avoid, dodge or deal with enough traps that you don't need a remove trap person all the time, but finding traps is simply too important to go very long without it.
Tracking is more specialized, and your probably right about tracking and perception not overlapping once we see the full rules.
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1 year ago ::
Jun 07, 2012 - 4:08AM
#5
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I don't believe Find Traps and Perception cover the same thing, so I wouldn't give someone their perception bonus for finding a trap. That said, I also wouldn't require that someone have a +3 to Find Traps in order to do it at all, so anyone could do it. In fact, the healing Cleric in the playtest could do it more often than the Rogue, though skill mastery still makes it so its safest for the rogue to do it.
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1 year ago ::
Jun 07, 2012 - 6:59AM
#6
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Date Joined:
May 24, 2012
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[/quote]
I really don't want to go back to a system where Find Traps is separate from Perception. It creates another situation like the healing cleric, where the party feels that somebody has to take up rogue simply so that somebody has Find Traps. You can avoid, dodge or deal with enough traps that you don't need a remove trap person all the time, but finding traps is simply too important to go very long without it.
Tracking is more specialized, and your probably right about tracking and perception not overlapping once we see the full rules.
[/quote]
I'm on the other side of that fence: I see Rogues being the specialists that are, to me they are really the only class than has any real skill to find/disarm traps. I'm assuming that the disarming part is folded into that skill. Just like tracking tht you mention, to me, the whole trap thing is a specialized skill... I imagine rogues in training spending a good deal of time learning about the many devious types of traps.
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1 year ago ::
Jun 07, 2012 - 7:31AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Dec 21, 2005
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I think they should just lose Perception as a separate skill. It is too broad, like having the skills include Strong +3 or Agile +2 or Knowledge Everything +3.
My question is what are they trying to model with Perception as part of a soldier's background? The background says that the soldier is trained to stay alive when war rages around them, so my guess is it is meant to be used to spot things in battle that pose a danger.
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1 year ago ::
Jun 07, 2012 - 7:51AM
#8
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Date Joined:
May 25, 2012
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I doubt that will happen even, at least in this case. My guess is that when the rules are fleshed out more, they'll go into more detail about what the bonuses can and can't be used for when it comes to skills like "Find Traps". My money's on Perception not having anything to do with it and the Find Traps bonus being the only one that applies to locating a trap. They'll probably have similar clarifications on Track as well.
I really don't want to go back to a system where Find Traps is separate from Perception. It creates another situation like the healing cleric, where the party feels that somebody has to take up rogue simply so that somebody has Find Traps. You can avoid, dodge or deal with enough traps that you don't need a remove trap person all the time, but finding traps is simply too important to go very long without it.
Tracking is more specialized, and your probably right about tracking and perception not overlapping once we see the full rules.
My interpretation would be that someone trying to perceive danger (ala traps) will have a higher DC than a rogue who is specifically trained at finding traps. So both characters with perception and rogues with find traps can attempt to find traps but the rogue will have an easier time of it; translation lower DC. Further with the aid feature all you need is someone in the party with a 10+ in the appropriate ability to give the person trying to find said trap an advantage roll.
As to combining the two on the same rogue character, my guess is that there will be a synergy bonus but they will not stack. Like others have suggested a +1 to find traps when the rogue also has the perception skill bonus.
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1 year ago ::
Jun 07, 2012 - 9:27AM
#9
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Date Joined:
Jul 28, 2011
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Hey guys, I'm going to move this discussion to Playtest Packet Discussion. Thanks, Monica
Monica
Wizards of the Coast Online Community Coordinator
A friendly dragon.
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1 year ago ::
Jun 07, 2012 - 2:17PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Jan 29, 2005
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I think Find Traps is the near-sighted cousin to Perception. Also, Find Traps is usually Intelligence-based IMO where Perception makes sense as wisdom. Perception looks for the trees in the distance and seeing if any hold bad guys. Find Traps is far more immediate and focused on finding that tripwire or hidden catch that is right next to you.
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