|
13 months ago ::
Jun 03, 2012 - 8:18AM
#1
|
Date Joined:
Apr 19, 2006
|
Attacks of op?
roll to confirm crits?
double damage on crits?
idk i thought these were very essential to the game mechanics
|
|
|
|
13 months ago ::
Jun 03, 2012 - 9:08AM
#2
|
Date Joined:
Jun 23, 2009
|
Just to voice an opinion, but...
D&D lasted about 28 years without attacks of opportunity (from 1974 when the game was first published to when 3E was introduced).
4E doesn't roll to confirm crits.
4E doesn't do double damage on crits.
I wouldn't call attacks of opportunity "essential."
If this thread is going to turn poll-wise, I prefer not having attacks of opportunity (in the core rules at least).
-1
|
|
|
|
13 months ago ::
Jun 03, 2012 - 9:24AM
#3
|
|
|
Confirming crits is the only thing from the above list I would have thought essential for a system that crits on a max roll (4e not having isn't a valid argument imho... and 2nd ed required you to hit by a certain amount to crit iirc). The idea of someone who can only hit on a max roll critting every time they do manage to hit is... bizzare. Of course if the 'flattened curve' means that you will never need a max roll to hit I guess it is less of an issue. So maybe it isn't essential after all.
I hope some form of attack of opportunity appears. The wording for reaction actions seems to be able to set up specific abilities that may allow for essentially the same mechanic.
I don't like the simple 'max damage on crits' approach but this has been discussed elsewhere.
|
|
|
|
13 months ago ::
Jun 03, 2012 - 9:44AM
#4
|
Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
|
Attacks of opportunity as a base mechanic slowed down combat so significantly the designers have chosen to remove it from the core rules. I'm sure there will be a module, optional rule, and/or feats/themes/schemes that implement such a mechanic.
2nd edition had roll of natural 20 on an attack automatically deal double damage. 3rd edition is the only iteration that require confirming criticals if I recall correctly. All it does is add more dice rolling and honestly takes the "epic" out of rolling that 20.
My Paladin: Hey mage, why are you always reading that book?
Party Wizard: This tome contains a wealth of knowledge, sir knight.
My Paladin: Well if tomes contain knowledge, knowledge is power, power corrupts, and corruption is evil...than the more you read the more evil you become! Quickly everyone, get her!
|
|
|
|
13 months ago ::
Jun 03, 2012 - 10:14AM
#5
|
|
|
2nd ed had a few different rules for critical hits (all of which were optional). the simplest one (and one of two options in the DMG) was the doubmage ona 20. The second option in the DMG is to give an extra attack on a natural 20... and another if that scored a natural 20... and so on.
The one I was recalling in my previous post is the one from players options (combat & tactics). A crit is scored on a roll of 18+ that hits by 5 or more. The crit could be double damage or use more complicated critical damage rules.
That is the same book, incidentally, that introduced the battle grid and attacks of opportunity to 2nd ed rules. And facing. Which I still prefer to flanking.
|
|
|
|
13 months ago ::
Jun 03, 2012 - 5:23PM
#6
|
Date Joined:
Oct 28, 2003
|
If they want the game to be playable without a grid, Attacks of Opportunity can't be part of the base rules. They can be part of the rules that apply when you're using the optional grid, along with flanking.
|
|
|
|
13 months ago ::
Jun 03, 2012 - 5:34PM
#7
|
Date Joined:
Sep 19, 2008
|
If they want the game to be playable without a grid, Attacks of Opportunity can't be part of the base rules. They can be part of the rules that apply when you're using the optional grid, along with flanking.
Why not?
As mush as I hate "DM May I" (Gridless combat), being unable to do OAs/AoOs has never been a problem in Gridless combat.
Ahh, so THIS is where I can add a sig.
Remember: Killing an ancient God inside of a pyramid IS a Special Occasion, and thus, ladies should be dipping into their Special Occasions underwear drawer.
|
|
|
|
13 months ago ::
Jun 03, 2012 - 6:06PM
#8
|
Date Joined:
Oct 28, 2003
|
Really? I've always found it pretty much impossible to do those things without a grid. Certainly in the sense of knowing whether I can move somewhere without risking opportunity, or whether I ought to get an attack against someone. It boils down to DM fiat in those situations, and thus becomes impossible to plan ahead.
|
|
|
|
13 months ago ::
Jun 03, 2012 - 6:58PM
#9
|
|
|
Have to agree with Darkwolf_Bloodsbane (on the point about AoO not being a problem). It shouldn't be an issue... as long as you have a fair and impartial DM.... and reasonable players. If you don't have those traits in your DM/players... then you probably aren't going to do well without some kind of map anyway.
|
|
|
|
13 months ago ::
Jun 03, 2012 - 8:22PM
#10
|
Date Joined:
Oct 31, 2009
|
You do not need a map for AoO.
Player: Can I run past the gobins to get to the Goblin Shaman.
DM: No there are to many you would get multiple AoO. But if so other people engaged them first they could create a path where you would take only 1 AoO.
or
DM: No there are to many of them but you could take a path where only one would get a AoO on you.
or
DM: Yes if you run arround the outer one you could but it will take more than on move.
See its easy but it does take a DM who will give players options when asked and not just a yes/no answer.
But back to the fundamental question
Instead of confirming a crit just make it so you can only crit if a 20 would hit otherwise the 20 only gives you a hit when you couldn't normally
I have always preferred max damage doe a crit than doubling the damage you did as rolling a 1 and doubling it just didn't seem like a crit.
Just say no to AoO. Would you really try to just run buy a person with armor shield and weapon. It is really hard to imagine anything good happening to you and being hit with a weapon probably would be the best result. Just make it that a character that moves adjecent to an enemy can only move out on the same turn using the same path he moved in. That would allow in and out attacks. The add abilities to classes that would allow character to move past but that took multiple turns or required an opposed check.
|
|
|
