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Switch to Forum Live View Playtest Packet needs a page 42.
13 months ago  ::  Jun 01, 2012 - 12:59PM #1
Electricbee
Date Joined: Sep 10, 2005
Posts: 1,180
With the focus on narrative adjudication rather than on mechanical blueprinting, a guideline should be provided.  The list of DC ranges is not enough.  What statuses are appropriate for improvised actions.  What levels of damage are.   If you are trying to revert to a system that is based on a DM's call, where are the guidelines to making that call. 

In addition to a page 42 style mechanical starting point for improvisation, I think a discussion is also in order for guidlines for soliciting input and encouraging player engagement through the interpretation of actions and the awarding of advantage and disadvantage.
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13 months ago  ::  Jun 01, 2012 - 1:13PM #2
Kyathus
Date Joined: Mar 20, 2012
Posts: 8
I couldn't agree more! I am a huge advocate for training DM's as opposed to giving DM's rules. I table of DC's is fine start, about what I could hope for in a a playtest, but I hope for a more indepth look into how to handle improvisation at the table.
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13 months ago  ::  Jun 01, 2012 - 2:00PM #3
Gwarh
Date Joined: Jul 27, 2006
Posts: 17
I +1 this thread
Dirty Deeds, DONE DIRT CHEAP!
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13 months ago  ::  Jun 01, 2012 - 2:00PM #4
Malckuss
Date Joined: Nov 25, 2006
Posts: 164
I third this idea. One of the best rules to come out of 4th edition.
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13 months ago  ::  Jun 01, 2012 - 6:29PM #5
stoloc
Date Joined: Mar 28, 2008
Posts: 969

Jun 1, 2012 -- 12:59PM, Electricbee wrote:

With the focus on narrative adjudication rather than on mechanical blueprinting, a guideline should be provided.  The list of DC ranges is not enough.  What statuses are appropriate for improvised actions.  What levels of damage are.   If you are trying to revert to a system that is based on a DM's call, where are the guidelines to making that call. 

In addition to a page 42 style mechanical starting point for improvisation, I think a discussion is also in order for guidlines for soliciting input and encouraging player engagement through the interpretation of actions and the awarding of advantage and disadvantage.




I have said frequently that if they plan on having "improvise" being such a huge part of the game they need to give me examples and guidelines so I know the parameters I'm working within- Can an intimidate check be as powerful as a mass fear spell even for a short time for ecample.

I've also said that if the "improvise" action is meant to be the bread and butter way of making some classes (rogue and fighter) more interesting than "I swing my sword this round" that they darned sure better give those classes advantages to performing those improvised actions over the ones who have more interesting options built into their class.

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13 months ago  ::  Jun 01, 2012 - 9:18PM #6
Alter_Boy
Date Joined: Oct 17, 2007
Posts: 3,841
AMEN!
"People want balance but can't accept this homogenization that occurs as a result of that balance being implemented. then they complain that the fighter is weaker than the wizard ad nauseam.: - Teitan
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13 months ago  ::  Jun 01, 2012 - 10:33PM #7
Robonut
Date Joined: Apr 7, 2012
Posts: 9
DM Guidelines, pages 3 and 4.

What went missing in D&D, at least for me during the stat-sim style of the last few editions, is the sense that this is my world I share with these players. The last thing I need in a game is a player constantly pointing to tables to tell me how to run the adventure. If you chose me to be a DM or agreed to play in my game, please let me do my job.

Players will always go off the map. You needn't a die roll to bring them back and as long you know the adventure and it's goals, you ought to get by with that.  Otherwise, explain to the player(s) that the next roll does in no way set any precedence for future, similar attempts.  It rewards their creativity without entitling them future concessions. 

I've played in other game systems where every challenged action resolved on the character's stats vs some kind of target number.  None of these provided any exhaustive examples but it didn't derail the game when a player tried something truly bizarre.

Give the Test Rules a chance and maybe goad the players into pushing an envelope or two.  You'll grow stronger as a DM and the results will help shape the Test material.
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13 months ago  ::  Jun 01, 2012 - 11:11PM #8
jonathan_sicari
Date Joined: Sep 1, 2008
Posts: 3,353
I have been advocating something similar in several threads over the past few days.

@Robonut: OK, I want to stun a foe while doing damage, or knock him prone, or slide him five feet and move into the area he is occupying? How about hit one foe and deal stat damage to another? Ajudicate fairly for all tables that could ever exist please.
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13 months ago  ::  Jun 02, 2012 - 1:07AM #9
Plaguescarred
Date Joined: May 12, 2009
Posts: 16,534
Yeah i agree a table of improvisional Task DC and Damage would make a great guideline.
Yan
Montréal, Canada
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13 months ago  ::  Jun 02, 2012 - 1:15AM #10
lokiare
Date Joined: Nov 3, 2008
Posts: 14,703

Jun 1, 2012 -- 10:33PM, Robonut wrote:

A good DM can ...




Sorry, there are more types of DMs than good, fair, and clever DMs, who are really just a tiny subset of DMs. We need guidelines at the very least for new DMs, mistake prone DMs, mediocre DMs, DMs that can't make up balanced mechanics on a moments notice, and others.

The default the rules and guidelines should aim for is mediocre DMs...

Look here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. I'm looking for players for a 4E fantasy grounds game.Swallowed Lich's Implement, help please.
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